JJ Abrams career is not a reason to rewrite the narrative of Star Trek 2009.

[gabby1701]

We were talking about JJ and the Kelvin Trek movies?


Swag and charisma? Kirk is a jerk in that clip. Shatner's Kirk got a little flirty sometimes, but he was always respectful. Wesley has been the same way.

and you miss the point.
kirk is a jerk and he pays for it. he gets humbled by pike who takes him under his wings and serves as his father figure.discovery sort of had this with spock but had ditched it by snw . he is also not impressive to uhura and her friends beat him up for harassing her. there is also a reason why he and uhura never got together because they were not compatible. streaming trek just pair people up romantically for nonsensical reason.


this is a young kirk who grew up without his dad. that is actually a theme that stood out in trek 2009. which is a core of trek (social themes) and something trek 2009 had over streaming trek is that the series did have human themes that took centre stage

kirk is the product of a fatherless upbringing and it showed. his entire arc in trek 2009 was him trying to making his dad proud. it was brought up a lot in the film that jim kirk is not george kirk...yet. Spock ,Nero and Pike all at some point in the film drew comparison to kirk and george. again this is how you handle themes that carries depth.

also this goes back to casting. you have to get it right. if a character has to play a jerk you need to get a very likeable and charismatic actor to do so to still make the character watchable. perfect example is marlon brando cast as stanley kowalski from a streetcar named desire. stanley is a terrible person but marlon cast in the role made the whole thing excellent.


absent fathers. I cannot recall a theme in SNW that is even taken this seriously because trek 2009 at least was moire adult leanings. streaming trek has been trying to chase the CW YA crowd for a long time.and this is the problem I said prove me right. the only way for anyone to make the case that kelvin trek is week trek is to say what never happens in kelvin trek.

 

[gabby1701]

Most Star Trek movies were action oriented, that didn't start with Abrams. And nonsensical plots didn't start with him either. Genesis reviving Spocks radioactive and decomposing body while his mind is stored in Bones? Getting whales from the past to say "HI" to an alien probe so that it doesn't wipe out humanity? Meeting "god"? A fountain of youth planet? A Picard clone murdering the romulan senate and taking over?

And when it comes to Star Wars it's important to remember that many fans despised the prequel trilogy and weren't exactly sad to see Lucas sell Lucasfilm. Star Wars gets "ruined" every generation, when I was a child Return of the Jedi sucked according to older kids but 8 year old me loved the Ewoks.
Kids who grew up with the prequels love those and I'm sure eventually people will look back on the sequels and think of Rei as their generations Luke Skywalker. "But Rei was a Mary Sue!!!", sure and Luke blew up the Death Star with a combination of half a day of Jedi training, trusting the force and having shot at rats on Tatooine, while Anakin hid in a fighter and then oopsied and whoohooed his way into destroying a capital ship. They're all Mary Sues.

And on TV Abrams has a better track record than Roddenberry, just saying.

yes exactly all star trek movies are action oriented because they are movies. we should not even compare tv and movies but with movies you can at least squeeze a lot to get it under 3 hours compared to tv shows. star trek having action been seen as a copy of star wars is kind of insulting to Gene Rodenberry since TOS already came first and star trek is in the genre of action and adventure.

star wars = action adventure high fantasy
star trek=action adventure drama science fiction and low fantasy

as for movies and tv, I won't even compare pound for pound but we can get some surface comparison. what I find funny is how people just tell factual lies. I have seen some say jj abrams used star trek to get an audition for star wars. what? how? This is factually a lie since when star trek 2009 was made. star wars was in limbo and there was no plans to make a new star wars films.

disney had not even bought star wars yet even when jj was announced as the director for STID . Star wars Sequel trilogy was not even a thing so how could he have used it as an audition for star wars when we did not even know there would be new star wars movies.

oh the lies.....and false narrative.but people do need to watch first contact that is the movie star trek 2009 fit close to more especially with high stake, drama, saving the world and tone too. shows like SNW do not even know what they want to do. drama , comedy , soap opera romance or action adventure.

the idea that trek 2009 is like star wars is funny since the last streaming trek series got critically panned for having god like characters that takes the genre into pure high fantasy and for what is worth the anakin/padme romance served an important purpose same goes for han/leia. no one knows what Peck spock is doing with this flavour of the week ya romance.

 

[V'Lias]

and you miss the point.
kirk is a jerk and he pays for it. het gets humbled by pike who takes him under his wings and serves as his father figure.discovery sorted had this with spock but has ditched in by snw . he is also not impressive to uhura and her friends beat him up for harassing her. there is also a reason why he and uhura never got together because they were not compatible. streaming trek just pair people up for nonsensical reason.


this is a young kirk who grew up with his dad. that is actually a theme that stood out in trek 2009. which is a core of trek and something trek 2009 had over streaming trek is that the series did have human themes that took centre stage

kirk is the product of a fatherless upbringing and it showed. his entire arc in trek 2009 was him trying to making his father proud. it was brought up a lot in the film that jim kirk is not george kirk...yet. Spock Nero and Pike all at some point in the film drew compassion to kirk and george. again this is how you handle themes that carries depth.

also this goes back to casting. you have to get it right. if a character has to play a jerk you need to get a very likeable and charismatic actor to do so to still make the character watchable.
perfect example is marlon brando cast as stanley kowalski from a streetcar named desire. stanley is a terrible person but marlon cast in the role made the whole thing excellent.


absent fathers. I cannot recall a theme in SNW that is even taken this seriously because trek 2009 at least was moire adult leaning. streaming trek has been trying to chase the CW YA crowd for a long time.

and this is the problem I said prove me right. the only way for anyone to make the case that kelvin trek is week trek is to say what never happens in kelvin trek.

And yet again a completely different topic gets stretched into something about SNW.

 

[gabby1701]

Nothing in the Kelvin films is out of step with TOS.

Kelvin trek stuck closer to lore with an alternate twist. if you remove spock dating uhura in aos. quinto spock is a carbon match copy of Nimoy Spock at 90%.

the core characters were ripped off from tos even to the point I would say karl urban was doing a great mimic of deforest kelly.

Quinto also has Nimoy quiet power and mystery.

Salanda was a good match to nichelle nichols bringing fun, charm, personality, beauty, intelligence and grace to the role and she was the only female but she held her own with the boys. the age of saldana made her a perfectly cast. Salanda is even older Pine in real life so the kirk/uhura dynamic was fine.

John Cho I feel is underrated and may be the one kelvin guy who I liked better than their tos counterparts.

Pine is Kirk. I do not know to this day how iconic that line bruce greenwood pike was to kirk when he said..... your father was captain for 12 minutes and saved 700 lives I dare you to do better. You do not see this kind of writing on new shows today. this is HBO quality writing.

One thing that was great about star trek 2009 is that the content was there. the substance was there for the acclaim. It was not forced , there was no planned narrative, no payollas.

with Streaming shows everything has been based on pushing a narrative , false hype, access media reviews with no substance to back it up. this is the reason why no offence people need to try and re write tos to justify a lot of bs that goes in some other trek content of recent years at least with kelvin trek you can argue with good context.

And yet again a completely different topic gets stretched into something about SNW.

not necessarily it is just providing substance that many streaming trek shows lack and that is why it will be best to make a star trek 4 and stop trying to change the narrative about abrams as a person less talented than Zack Snyder or michael bay.

the plan and payollas in access media to anoint a generic show like SNW as the reason we do not need a trek 4 is what I am against and the substance is there to back it up.

bring the cast back , get a competent director , shot out all the loud noise and focus on the work and you will have something great. this is why trek 2009 worked.

also people need to stop jumping on band waggons calling trek 2009 star wars is incorrect. simply because abrams said he liked star wars as a kid.

Also a lesson of fact on both series.
star wars: space action scenes are very bombastic and can be all over the place. sometimes you do not even know what is going on. this is good for fantasy

star trek : action scenes tend to be more refined, more focused and cleaner, overall shorter in time- which is best for the sci fi genre.

here again is a factual example

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i have seen many nu trek and nothing even comes close to this in terms of vfx, musical score and sound. and no it is not money just talent.