Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

[Christopher]

I prefer subtler messages too, but given the crap the trans community has to put up with, and given that Nicole Maines is herself a trans activist and took this role in part to help give her community a more public voice, I'm willing to excuse a little preachiness now and then. It's not something they do with her character every week; it's only really been a plot point a couple of times before.

And really, I didn't even think it was that preachy. It's a plausible situation for an openly trans superhero to have to face; if anything, it's surprising it took this long. And Nia's passion about her community isn't just a case of a character being arbitrarily turned into a mouthpiece for the writers; it makes sense as something she legitimately feels and believes, as a member of two minority communities (trans and alien). It's only really preachy if it's artificial and forced, but this was in character. Especially since, as Nia explained at the end, her passion about protecting her community was motivated by the fact that it's the only tie she felt she had left after Brainy dumped her for reasons she can't understand.

 

[TheMadCloner]

I prefer subtler messages too, but given the crap the trans community has to put up with, and given that Nicole Maines is herself a trans activist and took this role in part to help give her community a more public voice, I'm willing to excuse a little preachiness now and then. It's not something they do with her character every week; it's only really been a plot point a couple of times before.

And really, I didn't even think it was that preachy. It's a plausible situation for an openly trans superhero to have to face; if anything, it's surprising it took this long. And Nia's passion about her community isn't just a case of a character being arbitrarily turned into a mouthpiece for the writers; it makes sense as something she legitimately feels and believes, as a member of two minority communities (trans and alien). It's only really preachy if it's artificial and forced, but this was in character. Especially since, as Nia explained at the end, her passion about protecting her community was motivated by the fact that it's the only tie she felt she had left after Brainy dumped her for reasons she can't understand.

I didn't find the story preachy. I found some of the dialogue by Supergirl preachy though.

Show us, don't tell us.

If it were up to me, I would have made this a running arc through multiple episodes for both Supergirl and Dreamer. Have SG be morally conflicted about something, have her be uncertain about how good of a mentor she can be to Dreamer, have her be forced into a situation where she picks the moral high road because that's who she is, have Dreamer observe that at the peak of her own arc. Then have the added bonus of Dreamer telling SG how much her actions helped, and have both characters realize they can help each other. SG gets her confidence back, and uses that to face the situation with Lena.

I mean, that's how I would integrate arcs and plotting. It's almost a waste to only have a standalone episode for this - this should have been a subtle, slower build up throughout the whole season. It does more service to the character, to the actress, and to the cause.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not even remotely similar; Khalil never intended to kill him--he knew exactly where to wound Odell, since the point of his arc was overcoming the murderous Painkiller programming. On the other hand, Nia was attempting to kill the man and had to be talked down by SG, then threatened him in a way that suggests she would essentially wait for his release from prison and watch. She did not promise to send him back to jail. No, she was threatening to finish what she started if he assaults another one her community.

I spent 1/2 an hour last night trying to identify where that scene was from. I WAS almost nearly positive it was from Macgyver...

Thank you.

What about after Glory brain wiped Tara and Buffy talked Willow down, and Buffy was all smug about how she has magic powers of reasonability until Spike told Buffy that she's a fucking idiot. Willow is going to die trying to scuff Glory because Glory almost nearly killed the woman she loved.

The Good old days.

Bishop, the “new" blond girl on NCIS executed a baddie, because it was unreasonable to let him live, and she is spiraling from the consequences of that decision.

 

[Marc]

Bishop, the “new" blond girl on NCIS executed a baddie, because it was unreasonable to let him live, and she is spiraling from the consequences of that decision.

no she didn't kill him and didn't know who did watch the end of the episode again - she's wondering if Gibbs killed him so she wouldn't head down that path.

 

[Guy Gardener]

no she didn't kill him and didn't know who did watch the end of the episode again - she's wondering if Gibbs killed him so she wouldn't head down that path.

It's 50/50.

Gibs was talking to her about how she is dealing with the guilt which makes me think that she did it, but the writers are playing with us.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I didn’t think it was really that preachy. The fear of technology theme has been a lot more preachy.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But it wasn't technology.

In both stories it was insecure males being insecure.

Some rage is to be expected when you're cheated on, but you buckle that down fast before any one notices. 0 rage is to be expected when you get a boner for a transwoman.

 

[David cgc]

On another note, after seeing Zoë Graystone on Batwoman last week, I think I was primed for the extremely-Caprica-esque VR-affair-and-kidnapping story. I should check to see if there's a domestic BR release for that show yet, or if it's still only available in HD in French. Ah, looks like there are a couple more European import versions to choose from—and the Swedish one has packaging in English! Now, to figure out how region cods work for blu-rays...

 

[Ovation]

Episodes like this are why the ratings of this show are where they are. Preachy, woke, completely unnecessary, kept the title character on the sidelines, and irrelevant to the season arc. Plus, the people who watch Supergirl don't need the lesson from the soapbox. Hopefully now that they got this out of the way, they can do a better episode next week.

Yawn.

 

[Tuskin38]

Plus, the people who watch Supergirl don't need the lesson from the soapbox.

You clearly do.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm all for thematic messaging, but it's a little much when it's presented like a sledgehammer to your face, multiple times.

Yes, a sledgehammer powered by a rocket, but that has been and will always be a failing of this series. A message can be effective as a natural part of the story, but that kind of screenwriting does not allow for screaming from the rooftops, so its pushed aside.

That's more a preference in terms of writing style, not on the types of stories. I don't consider a few posts on a message board making a fuss about it.

Agreed.

It's the whole reason message boards exist, to communicate opinions and exchange ideas.

Most reject that in favor of mob mentalities sold as the only view to be considered.

 

[Kirk Prime]

You clearly do.

Really? You think I go around beating on trans people? Your hate for anyone who is not a woke liberal is apparent. Sounds like you're the bigot. I'm willing to bet no one who watches Supergirl hates transpeople, and no one who watches that show will have their mind changed because of that episode.

This arc was a waste of an episode, but not a surprising one. These writers don't know what to do if they didn't have a soap box to preach on. Now if they want to do something, maybe take on instances where trans people are dead wrong, like when they steal victories in girls/womens' sports.

Yawn.

That describes the episode perfectly in one word. Good job.

 

[YLu]

Now if they want to do something, maybe take on instances where trans people are dead wrong, like when they steal victories in girls/womens' sports.

I think you've just made it crystal clear where your animosity for this episode is really stemming from, and it's not the quality of the writing.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Even if the 5x16 was made to pay homage to transgender population through Nia and her roomate, and condemning the physical and verbal abuses they are victims day after day and very - too - often in silence, I think that it would have been accurate to integrate a message at the very end of the epsiode (but just before the end credit) to invite trangender victims and the witnesses to these attacks to call certain phone numbers, like the local police, to intervene and the nearest association, to support - and failing that, the one which exists at the national level - AND present some illustrative figures on issue like the number of attacks in these last years and the number of deaths futher to attacks.

For my part, I didn't like to see Nia's character being weakened by her lack of self-control (she still has a lot to do in this domain and I hoped that Kara/Supergirl would be her mentor but alas, it seems that our heroin is far more concerned by others things. And no, it isn't Lena!) to be the heroin she wants to be). As I said once or twice in the past, for me Supergirl is an action show, not the one where social issues must be treated, because too often, there is rarely something good that came out of it and worst, they ruined some favourite characters by the way, like James in s4, Lena in s5 and lately, Kara and Nia). In short producers/writers don't know how to do to treat sensitive issues so, that they just stop to do it (I have on mind, an episode of Ally McBeal called "Boy to the world" in s1, where Ally was in charge of the defense of a young transgender prostitute, Stephanie.This episode without beging preachy, was emotionnal and viewers couldn't be insensitive to what Stephanie experienced on a daily basis - the way Ally advanced the ideas of transvestite fetishism& mental disorder were upsetting in the beginning - neither to what happened to her at the end . This episode really marked me, not only because of the issue but because of Wilson Cruz performance as Stephanie, who exhibited an equal shades of vulnerability and depth, making this episode unforgettable, at least for me and it was about 20 years ago). I'm almost certain that Reality Bytes will be very soon forgotten, alas, evzn if I like the performance of the actress playing the role of Nia's roomate).
But it is a persononal opinion and I already know that some of you will disagree and it is ok.

It remains 4 episodes to be released: next sunday, will be the about Alex dreaming to be a Super and William/Kelly investigating on Lex Luthor and the following one, will focus on Luthors family (and the one having been directed by Benoist). I don't expect a lot on terms of storylines development. Then a new pause after which we should we should finally move on with the Leviathan and Lex storylines. And of course, a so expected reconcilation between Lena and Kara!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Really? You think I go around beating on trans people? Your hate for anyone who is not a woke liberal is apparent. Sounds like you're the bigot. I'm willing to bet no one who watches Supergirl hates transpeople, and no one who watches that show will have their mind changed because of that episode.

This arc was a waste of an episode, but not a surprising one. These writers don't know what to do if they didn't have a soap box to preach on. Now if they want to do something, maybe take on instances where trans people are dead wrong, like when they steal victories in girls/womens' sports.



That describes the episode perfectly in one word. Good job.

South Park touched on that.

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Although it was a cis male pretending to be a transwoman, to humiliate his ex-girlfriend, by beating her at sport. So on one level it's about an insecure male being an ass, and on a second level it is where no one wants to call the fauxtranswoman on her fraud becuase they are afraid of being called transphobic. I don't think the episode was well received.

Kirk, Supergirl is a children's show and the moral messaging is intended to educate children (anyone under 20). You feel talked down to by Supergirl (the TV Show) becuase you are not a child. Congratulations.

 

[Neroon]

Really? You think I go around beating on trans people? Your hate for anyone who is not a woke liberal is apparent. Sounds like you're the bigot. I'm willing to bet no one who watches Supergirl hates transpeople, and no one who watches that show will have their mind changed because of that episode.

This arc was a waste of an episode, but not a surprising one. These writers don't know what to do if they didn't have a soap box to preach on. Now if they want to do something, maybe take on instances where trans people are dead wrong, like when they steal victories in girls/womens' sports.



That describes the episode perfectly in one word. Good job.

@Kirk Prime , there will be none of that here. This is the SFF forum where subject matter is to be simply that -s science fiction fantasy. If you wish to discuss other matters, you know where that is conducted

 

[theenglish]

I found this episode to be fine--the quality of writing has been low this season and this episode was no different but I didn't find it preachy at all--in fact, I thought Nia's reactions to be logical given the circumstance. I am sure many would/have reacted similarly (without powers of course). The final dialogue between Nia and her roommate though took me out of the show--it is as if they were explaining to the audience why the episode was important. It wasn't so much that it was "preachy" but rather that it was just unnatural in the flow of the dialogue.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I think you've just made it crystal clear where your animosity for this episode is really stemming from, and it's not the quality of the writing.

It's not the quality of the writing alone, it's the fake wokeness, and the even more fake outrage that it causes people like you when people aren't afraid to call it out. And I notice you didn't respond the reality of how transgenders hurt women by stealing scholarships and glory when they compete in sports they have no business competing in due to their biology.

That's about as sexist as possible, yet the left doesn't have the guts to call it out since they are hypocrites. They don't care about women. They care about being angry.

there will be none of that here. This is the SFF forum where subject matter is to be simply that -s science fiction fantasy. If you wish to discuss other matters, you know where that is conducted

Fine, but more hypocrisy, since you didn't call out the person who personally attacked me and called me a bigot.

Kirk, Supergirl is a children's show and the moral messaging is intended to educate children (anyone under 20). You feel talked down to by Supergirl (the TV Show) becuase you are not a child. Congratulations.

First of all, it is NOT a children's show, and if it were, the subject matter is BEYOND inappropriate.

Although it was a cis male pretending to be a transwoman, to humiliate his ex-girlfriend, by beating her at sport. So on one level it's about an insecure male being an ass, and on a second level it is where no one wants to call the fauxtranswoman on her fraud becuase they are afraid of being called transphobic. I don't think the episode was well received.

That was actually an episode that nailed it. It's an issue that does need to be addressed. Not everything is perfect.

 

[Maurice]

[...]the reality of how transgenders hurt women by stealing scholarships and glory when they compete in sports they have no business competing in due to their biology.[...]

^^^
KIRK: I’ll say this for him. He’s consistent.

If one actually bothers to look at articles that don’t cater to their preconceptions one finds issues can be much grayer than Bele and Loki would have you believe. For instance:

Don’t Believe Everything You Read About Trans Women In Sports (Link)

It’s a complicated and hot button issue, and the science is not exactly settled on it. But then that never even slows you down, does it?

 

[YLu]

It's not the quality of the writing alone, it's the fake wokeness, and the even more fake outrage that it causes people like you when people aren't afraid to call it out. And I notice you didn't respond the reality of how transgenders hurt women by stealing scholarships and glory when they compete in sports they have no business competing in due to their biology.

That's about as sexist as possible, yet the left doesn't have the guts to call it out since they are hypocrites. They don't care about women. They care about being angry.

The only one here being outraged is you, going off on off-topic uninformed rants about your grievances with society that don't even have anything to do with this episode.

And for the record, "transgender" is an adjective, not a noun. There are transgender men, transgender women, transgender people. There are not "transgenders." I'm sure you will honor and respect that preferred usage going forward, what with you not being at all a bigot.