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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 3

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dodge said:
I can understand Kara's reaction, but she is a bit myopic about the whole thing here.
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And so is Lena, because she doesn't realize that Supergirl has emotionally valid and understandable reasons for her reaction. She's not just being imperious or having a god complex. The whole thing that makes this debate so intriguing is that there is no simple "This side is right and the other is wrong" conclusion. There are equally valid arguments on both sides. And both Supergirl and Lena could stand to try to understand each other's perspectives more and recognize why they think the way they do, rather than jumping to negative conclusions about the others' motives.

I'm starting to wonder if this is building up to Kara revealing her identity to Lena as a way of regaining her trust. Maybe Lena would be more willing to hear Supergirl's concerns if she knew they were coming from a dear friend whom she trusted. Although that could easily backfire and make the rift worse.
 
Christopher said:
And so is Lena, because she doesn't realize that Supergirl has emotionally valid and understandable reasons for her reaction. She's not just being imperious or having a god complex. The whole thing that makes this debate so intriguing is that there is no simple "This side is right and the other is wrong" conclusion. There are equally valid arguments on both sides.
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It is indeed an interesting debate, and certainly a complex one with no easy answers, but I'm not sure I can agree that their positions are equally valid. For one, Lena is arguing about using it in this particular case, while Kara is dealing in absolutes, nobody should handle or use Kryptonite except her.

It is entirely understandable that she would react in this way, especially since she recently came face to face with her own mortality when Reign almost killed her, but just because an argument is understandable on an emotional level it does not make it inherently valid.

If we go Socratic on it, and transplant the argument on other rare or unique aliens in this universe... fire is Green Martians' Kryptonite, should only J'onn deal with fire? Or even more appropriate, lead is Daxamites' Kryptonite, should only Mon-El be allowed to deal with lead?

Supergirl's position specifically fails on that last one, because she's the one who used lead as a deterrent against Daxamite invasion in last season's finale. If she can make a decision on using a substance harmless to her but lethal to others, why is then absolutely no circumstance allowed where someone else could be entrusted to use Kryptonite?
 
dodge said:
Supergirl's position specifically fails on that last one, because she's the one who used lead as a deterrent against Daxamite invasion in last season's finale. If she can make a decision on using a substance harmless to her but lethal to others, why is then absolutely no circumstance allowed where someone else could be entrusted to use Kryptonite?
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there's a difference though - both fire and lead are inbundance on Earth both in nature and through man-made and it's use generally isn't targeted against anyone. Kryptonite is difference - there's a very small amount and it's main use is to harm Kryptonians. Oh and it's in no way native to Earth.
 
Marc said:
there's a difference though - both fire and lead are inbundance on Earth both in nature and through man-made and it's use generally isn't targeted against anyone.
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The point is it's morally problematic to argue that only you should have total control of "the one substance" that can harm you if you're at the same time willing to use "the one substance" that can harm someone else.
 
In my opinion, Kara is putting her own life above billions of others with her stance on Kryptonite. She repeatedly goes up against evil Kryptonions (one of which almost killed her). Yet, she would deny humanity the only other defense available to them.

And that's not even getting into her disturbingly authoritarian tendencies here. As pointed out, there is no law against having Kryptonite. Yet, she used the possibility of Kryptonite to justify having James break into Lena's private lab.
 
Snaploud said:
In my opinion, Kara is putting her own life above billions of others with her stance on Kryptonite. She repeatedly goes up against evil Kryptonions (one of which almost killed her). Yet, she would deny humanity the only other defense available to them.
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but how many lives would be a stake if a Lex Luthor type used Kryptonite against Supergirl and took her out of the game permanently?
 
Romulan_spy said:
Perhaps but being myopic about a situation when you feel personally attacked is certainly realistic.
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...but she still in position to make decisions for the rest of the world, unless she's marching toward justifying absolute authority over humanity. Her behavior here is but the first step in "do as I say" authoritarian control under the cry of security, whether its personal or for others.

Snaploud said:
In my opinion, Kara is putting her own life above billions of others with her stance on Kryptonite. She repeatedly goes up against evil Kryptonions (one of which almost killed her). Yet, she would deny humanity the only other defense available to them.
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True. She does not care about that fact (and by association, mankind), and assumes she will be able to deal with threats as they present themselves...nevermind the fact her aunt and the Worldkillers nearly wiped her off the face of the earth.

And that's not even getting into her disturbingly authoritarian tendencies here. As pointed out, there is no law against having Kryptonite. Yet, she used the possibility of Kryptonite to justify having James break into Lena's private lab.
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Agreed. She cannot see how incredibly unethical she is in having James--allegedly her "close friend"--violate any rust with Lena, all to satisfy her paranoia and quest to control the actions of others. James' life and interests be damned.

If anything, this opens the door to Supergirl stepping back (that is, if the showrunners have other characters school her on her lack of legal and moral authority), giving Lena the cover / freedom to continue doing whatever she has going on behind the scenes, free of the threat of Supergirl interference. If that happens, and Lena ends up posing some great, Kryptonite-powered threat (by design or accident), Supergirl will only have her self to blame for creating an environment where Lena would be determined to assert her own free will--thanks to Supergirl's booting around, trying to impose hers.
 
Marc said:
but how many lives would be a stake if a Lex Luthor type used Kryptonite against Supergirl and took her out of the game permanently?
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Maybe a lot... or maybe a lot more would die by not having Kryptonite as a defense. Kara is not going to be around forever. Humanity has a right to protect itself.
 
dodge said:
It is indeed an interesting debate, and certainly a complex one with no easy answers, but I'm not sure I can agree that their positions are equally valid. For one, Lena is arguing about using it in this particular case, while Kara is dealing in absolutes, nobody should handle or use Kryptonite except her.

It is entirely understandable that she would react in this way, especially since she recently came face to face with her own mortality when Reign almost killed her, but just because an argument is understandable on an emotional level it does not make it inherently valid.
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No, but if both sides in an argument understand the emotional reasons why their opposites believe what they do, rather than jumping to negative conclusions about their intentions, then they can approach the debate from a position of mutual trust and have a better chance of actually finding a compromise rather than mistrusting each other's motives and becoming rivals. It's not about the factual rightness of either position. Neither one is entirely right or entirely wrong. It's about listening to each other, considering each other's point of view in order to understand each other's reasons. If they do that, then it improves their odds of working out a compromise.


If we go Socratic on it, and transplant the argument on other rare or unique aliens in this universe... fire is Green Martians' Kryptonite, should only J'onn deal with fire? Or even more appropriate, lead is Daxamites' Kryptonite, should only Mon-El be allowed to deal with lead?
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Of course not, because fire is harmful to humans as well, and so is lead (though not in the same comic-booky way as for Daxamites). And both have beneficial uses. Kryptonite, at least in the show's continuity, doesn't have any other use than as an anti-Kryptonian weapon.
 
I think James missed a chance to have a reasonable conversation with Lena on the subject of secret identities.

"On the subject of secrets: you know I'm Guardian, and you know I have friendships with Superman and Supergirl. That makes me privy to a lot of their personal lives. Now, I know having secrets is a relationship killer, but, if we're to continue this relationship, I have to know you're okay with me not divulging that type of knowledge until or unless they decide to let you know themselves. Is that something you think you can handle?"

Of course, that would short-circuit any writers' plans to have Lena feel betrayed by James when she inevitably learns Supergirl's secret identity.
 
I hope the writers remember that Lena used the "not my secret to tell" defense about Sam, if she tries to give James a hard time about that.
 
Noname Given said:
I take it you've never seen Mon-El drawn in a "Legion of Superheroes" comic? I ask because they did a spot on recreation of it for the show. ;)
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Nope I never got into superhero comics as a kid. My interest in the genre has mostly come from the movies and tv shows but I have always wanted to go try the comics. It's hard to know where to start since they have been done forever. Only thing I have heard is the comics were bad in the 90's and also today. They were at their best in the 80's.

Jason
 
Jayson1 said:
Nope I never got into superhero comics as a kid. My interest in the genre has mostly come from the movies and tv shows but I have always wanted to go try the comics. It's hard to know where to start since they have been done forever. Only thing I have heard is the comics were bad in the 90's and also today. They were at their best in the 80's.

Jason
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Well, DC have been awesome (for the most part) for the past two years.

Supergirl moves to Sunday nights this fall.
 
Snaploud said:
I think James missed a chance to have a reasonable conversation with Lena on the subject of secret identities.
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They did that plotline back when he dated Lucy Lane... ;)

(Apparently James has a thing for lesser known sisters of famous Superman characters. :D)
 
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