Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Kirk Prime]

My issue with the Alex/Maggie B-plot is that it was out-of-place within the context of the episode. Full Stop.

However, that's not really the point here. You don't have to like the way that Alex and Maggie fit into this episode, but to sit here and claim that original characters are somehow "less" because they're original is to peddle "Alternative Facts" and lessens your credibility.

Actually unless that character takes off, and sorry, Alex isn't some sensational character that came into her own, it does matter that the character is brand new. The show wasn't sold as Alex's story. People don't watch superhero shows to see the adopted sister of the hero.

She is a supporting character. That's great. But to devote as much time, especially out of context, isn't working at all for me.

This is just something I feel the writers are forcing because they like it, regardless if it is working or not. Their choice, but I don't have to pretend to like it when it takes away from the real story, which it absolutely did this week.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Distant Sun" is one of the best episodes so far.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

James, J'onn, Mon-El, Winn, Lena and yes, Alex... all have continuing storylines, and there's a little bit for everyone there so I don't get why you're singling out this particular subplot or why it bothers you so much(I mean I do know why, but I'm giving you the benefit of doubt...)

No, there's not a little bit for everyone. Let's be honest: as mentioned time and again, the James character is sidelined to the point of being less than a guest star. Winn, J'onn, Alex and just about any random character has more plot development time. While series with running subplots have the luxury of building until a character's story takes center stage, that has not happened with James, and there's no indicators that it ever will--other than his constantly defeated Guardian being killed off (as a part of the audience with certain issues have desired). The biggest James highlight this season was his argument with Kara over his right to be the Guardian--and that did not last an entire episode.

In season one, he was

• The experienced, morally centered guy (particularly in setting Kara straight in her approach to being a hero) leaving the shadow of Clark/Superman and establishing his own identity as James--not Jimmy. Moreover, he was not nervously chattering around Cat, or anyone at the DEO--standing up to anyone when necessary.
• A mature, believably and naturally growing love interest for Kara

In season two:

• The showrunners vomited the excuse that James/Kara was a CBS mandate, when the scripts had the characters naturally moving in a romantic direction that did not read as a quickie insert to please the network masters. No, the writers were never that good, so it seems the romance was always an intended part of the series.
• Bending to the flood of James hatred from a loud, self-proclaimed liberal-minded group of fans, James was quickly cleaved to being "wrong", so the obvious, bright-as-a-4th-of-July showrunner hatchet job ended the James/Kara pairing, moving his character to silent 5th wheel. Even as the Guardian plot unfolded, he was still pushed into a corner, when no main character ever gets booted into the backfield at the same time a new chapter opened in his life.

Aside from the usual members saying (in so many words) Kirk Prime is against the Alex/Maggie plot for reasons he has not said or implied (unless one looks for what is not there in the posts of everyone), which is baseless, he is correct in weighing the omnipresent Alex--a made for TV character--against others. The entire sister business did not mean Alex should have taken nearly half of any episode, while James--a character with the strongest comic ties of all after Superman and arguably J'onn (remember, this is supposed to be a comic/superhero series)--is reduced to that barely above a walk-on role. Even the actor has second billing, yet that is treated--with force--in a "title only" manner.

There's no excuse for that, other than the showrunners pushing various plots that mean more to their "vision" for the series than properly handling one of the most important characters in the Superman canon. So, some can make as many excuses and make the typical hollow charge about the nature of Kirk Prime's posts, but that can be swatted away by the evidence on screen, which I've presented.

 

[sojourner]

A mature, believably and naturally growing love interest for Kara

I really think you're pretty much alone in thinking this. No matter how many times you repeat it, virtually no one here has agreed.

 

[Christopher]

She is a supporting character.

No. She is one of the five core characters -- Kara, James, Alex, Winn, and J'onn. She is third-billed. It's ridiculous to say the third-billed member in a seven-member ensemble cast is "supporting." A supporting character is someone like Snapper or Lyra, someone who's just a guest star. Alex is a main character. She has been central to the series since the pilot. She was the first character in the pilot to be in on Kara's secret. She was the reason Kara revealed her powers to the world. She was the reason Kara got involved with the DEO. J'onn recruited her to the DEO because he swore to protect her. Her father was key to J'onn's backstory and to the Cadmus arc. Alex has been at the heart of everything from the start.

 

[1001001]

I didn't have any problem with James/Kara, but I do like Mon-El better.

It is kind of weird what they've done with the character of James, but so many other cool characters have emerged (Winn and J'onn, especially) that it doesn't really bother me that much.

 

[Noname Given]

Yup. Plenty of superhero-comic adaptations have given central roles to original characters -- Diggle in Arrow, Wells in The Flash, Sara Lance in Arrow and Legends, nearly the entire core casts of Agents of SHIELD and Batman Beyond, Chloe in Smallville, Richie in Static Shock, everyone in Legion except the lead character and his nemesis, etc. Not to mention all the characters that debuted in adaptations and were then added back into the comics -- Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Harley Quinn, Renee Montoya, Livewire, X-23, Agent Coulson, etc. There's no hierarchy of worth. Stories are stories. They draw on each others' ideas and add their own.

And don't forget some original creations made VERY successful transistions INTO comic book characters, Examples include:
- Batgirl [From the 1966 live-action Batman series]
- Harley Quinn (Harlequin) [From Batman: The Animated series, circa. 1994]

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The Alex/Maggie plot in "Distant Sun" took Alex's character on her way to the next level. I thought it was very well done, and certainly well above the more by-the-numbers handling of her that was evident at the beginning of the season.

 

[Christopher]

And don't forget some original creations made VERY successful transistions INTO comic book characters, Examples include:
- Batgirl [From the 1966 live-action Batman series]
- Harley Quinn (Harlequin) [From Batman: The Animated series, circa. 1994]

Yes, I did mention Harley Quinn. But Batgirl's a borderline case, since she was created in the comics at the request of the TV producers so that they could add her to the show the following season.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

I really think you're pretty much alone in thinking this. No matter how many times you repeat it, virtually no one here has agreed.

If you'd asked me at the end of season one about Kara/James, I would have told you it was alright. The love triangle with Lucy Lane did James no favours, but they'd eventually moved past that, like Winn's crush on Kara, and it ended up quite sweet, if underdeveloped and not exactly the stuff of epic romance.

But my god was it more believable and mature than the writer's forcing their (in their words) feminist superheroine into a relationship with a charming asshole, in order to play out the tired trope of "bad boy made good by the love of a good woman". Which is what this plot is to a T, especially with all the times Mon-El has said he's only interested in Superhero-ing because he gets to be with Kara. And I don't know even know at this point what Kara sees in him romantically, other than the shallowness of his good looks and his performing cliche acts of romance like breakfast in bed. At this point we know more about what Alex sees in Maggie than Kara in Mon-El.

Now Mon-El isn't all bad, like I said he can be quite charming, and Mon-El might be a decent character if he didn't have all this baggage attached to them. But the way his storyline overshadows Supergirl this season, both the show and character, I can't wait until he leaves (and god forbid, if he sticks around past the end of the season, I am done).

She was actually a lot more mature and understanding about being lied to than Kara was last week with Mon-El.

Christopher, I think there's rather a bit of difference between lying about cheating on an ex 5 years ago, and lying about ruling over a planet of slavers and about how you escaped it's destruction by being an accomplice to murder.

 

[dahj]

No, there's not a little bit for everyone. Let's be honest: as mentioned time and again, the James character is sidelined to the point of being less than a guest star.

He has the Guardian plotline, you may not think that's enough, but that's why there's a little in "little bit for everyone."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Blair Waldorf once said "It's like Roman Holiday. Only I'm Gregory Peck and he's Audrey Hepburn."

Kara is totally duped Gregory Peck. (And Mon-El is Eric Trump.)

Also, Kara LIES to almost the entire world about not being Supergirl or not being Kara Danvers.

She's awful!

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

And don't forget some original creations made VERY successful transistions INTO comic book characters, Examples include:
- Batgirl [From the 1966 live-action Batman series]]

...was not successful by any stretch of the imagination. Batman producer William Dozier thought adding her would serve two purposes: draw in adult males who would be sexually aroused by her, and young girls to idolize her. Neither happened to any meaningful degree, and her adaptation was so horrid that it is truthfully cited as one of the big reasons for advancing the decline and eventual death of the Dozier/Fox Batman TV series.

He has the Guardian plotline, you may not think that's enough, but that's why there's a little in "little bit for everyone."

Haha...but "little" by the end of season two for the second billed actor, and character who set up as the next most important after the lead is the showrunners trashing James in favor of plots and characters that mean little, other than to the PTB.

 

[Noname Given]

...was not successful by any stretch of the imagination. Batman producer William Dozier thought adding her would serve two purposes: draw in adult males who would be sexually aroused by her, and young girls to idolize her. Neither happened to any meaningful degree, and her adaptation was so horrid that it is truthfully cited as one of the big reasons for advancing the decline and eventual death of the Dozier/Fox Batman TV series.

Yet - she's a fairly large part of the Batman comic book mythos to this day (and had her own book too)<--- That was my point in mentioning it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

If you'd asked me at the end of season one about Kara/James, I would have told you it was alright. The love triangle with Lucy Lane did James no favours, but they'd eventually moved past that, like Winn's crush on Kara, and it ended up quite sweet, if underdeveloped and not exactly the stuff of epic romance.

But my god was it more believable and mature than the writer's forcing their (in their words) feminist superheroine into a relationship with a charming asshole, in order to play out the tired trope of "bad boy made good by the love of a good woman". Which is what this plot is to a T, especially with all the times Mon-El has said he's only interested in Superhero-ing because he gets to be with Kara.

Well said--and only those getting off on the immature CW (more TeenNick) styled relationships buy into this woefully unbelievable "romance." There's not an ounce of honesty or realism about the way it was introduced or executed so far, and Kara ends up looking like a rather shallow woman, since she so readily accepts and or forgives his deviant past, admitting he desired to continue the tradition of murdering those of Mxyzptlk's species, and as you point out, his lack of altruistic reasons for wanting to be a "hero." The fight with his parents does not make him a hero, but self-interested (as usual) because he has a TeenNick crush on Supergirl....yet she accepts it, then cons herself into believing that makes him a hero. In truth, it just breaks down any growth for Kara as a maturing individual.

And I don't know even know at this point what Kara sees in him romantically, other than the shallowness of his good looks and his performing cliche acts of romance like breakfast in bed.

All true.

I can't wait until he leaves (and god forbid, if he sticks around past the end of the season, I am done).

...hopefully "Distant Sun's" spotlighted Legion flight ring might lead to something...but then that might lead to more TeenNick-ing with a watered down version of you-know-who.

I think there's rather a bit of difference between lying about cheating on an ex 5 years ago, and lying about ruling over a planet of slavers and about how you escaped it's destruction by being an accomplice to murder.

Well, you would think the glaring difference would be easy to understand.

 

[DigificWriter]

L

Well said--and only those getting off on the immature CW (more TeenNick) styled relationships buy into this woefully unbelievable "romance."

Condescending much?

There's not an ounce of honesty or realism about the way it was introduced or executed so far, and Kara ends up looking like a rather shallow woman, since she so readily accepts and or forgives his deviant past, admitting he desired to continue the tradition of murdering those of Mxyzptlk's species, and as you point out, his lack of altruistic reasons for wanting to be a "hero." The fight with his parents does not make him a hero, but self-interested (as usual) because he has a TeenNick crush on Supergirl....yet she accepts it, then cons herself into believing that makes him a hero. In truth, it just breaks down any growth for Kara as a maturing individual.

Since you very obviously "hate-watch" this show for no discernible reason, it doesn't surprise me that you're attacking its lead.

* Sad *

I can't wait until he leaves (and god forbid, if he sticks around past the end of the season, I am done.

Go ahead and leave the thread, then, because Mon-El isn't going anywhere.

Chris Wood already confirmed that the writers have at least a two-year arc planned for his character.

 

[Skipper]

Christopher, I think there's rather a bit of difference between lying about cheating on an ex 5 years ago, and lying about ruling over a planet of slavers and about how you escaped it's destruction by being an accomplice to murder.

Yep. One can honestly believe to be a different person from 5 years before and learned from own mistakes. And revealing something similar to the current partner can bring more harm than good. Not everyone is a wonderful understanding person like Alex. On the other hand, being a prince...

On the subject I suggest this little indie movie:

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A girl, for being too honest about her past, ruins the relationships with her fiancee, her parents and her friends...

 

[dahj]

Haha...but "little" by the end of season two for the second billed actor, and character who set up as the next most important after the lead is the showrunners trashing James in favor of plots and characters that mean little, other than to the PTB.

Sorry, but no.
He got the most screentime in Season 1 by virtue of being the romantic lead. He isn't that anymore so now he has less, and because the show shifted focus from CatCo to DEO, yeah they haven't found an optimal way to include him more organically in the storylines, but I see no reason to get overly dramatic because other characters got some stories of their own.

As for other characters "that mean little"... you do know other people watch this show and actually like all those other characters as well, right?

So sorry you're not getting enough James in your life, but as others have pointed out, this isn't a Kara & James show, it has an ensemble cast, and a quite large one at that. Sometimes it'll be more focused on James, sometimes it'll be more focused on others, that's just the way it is...

Well said--and only those getting off on the immature CW (more TeenNick) styled relationships buy into this woefully unbelievable "romance." There's not an ounce of honesty or realism about the way it was introduced or executed so far

Your complaints might carry more weight if you weren't also in the same breath arguing to completely axe the most mature, believable, honest and realistic romance there is in the Arrowverse...

 

[Jax]

Well said--and only those getting off on the immature CW (more TeenNick) styled relationships buy into this woefully unbelievable "romance

Getting off

Some hyperbole with your lunch, sir?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Mon-El was already a reluctant prince by the time Krypton exploded. Kara's didn't so much change him as instead encourage, however unknowingly on her part, the better person that was already inside Mon-El to come out.

On the other hand, Kara needed to get past her own prejudices about Daxamites. Kara had an immature and unsympathetic overreaction to Mon-El's revelation that he'd lied and what he'd lied about, that stemmed from her own rigidity and which she finally recognized in the musical episode of The Flash. Kara was nowhere near as bad as Mon-El had been, naturally, but she wasn't winning perfection awards, either.