Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Photoman15]

Isn't this the part where you say "I've got nothing against gay people. I have gay friends. It's just..."



Alex is not a minor character, and her romance is no more or less relevant than Winn's or James'.

I think they may spend a drop more time on it than they should (since it is SUPERGIRL, and it's supposed to be a "hero" show). But it is much more tolerable here, one, because Alex IS a main character. I had a problem with David Gerrod's "Blood & Fire" for Star Trek Phase II (iirc). They were making these TOS episodes in the same format as the original TOS episodes. I complained to David that they spent too much time on the Peter and boyfriend ALONE scenes, not because the two were gay, but because NO guest star(s) on Trek got that much of their own screen time without the stars - on any Trek. It was just not Trek. An establishing scene, and maybe two more shortened scenes of the two together would have been enough. The guest stars should not be the story, the story should be the story.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, I heard her explanation and still I don't like it. It's not like Alex is a certified analyst who can decide what's healthy to share and what's not.

Whaaaa? No, she's someone in a relationship who's able to say "I want to help, you can trust me."

Instead, after stalking Maggie's ex (without asking her!) she concluded that the fact she didn't share a shameful act in her past was obviously a symptom of a problem.

No, she's recognized that there's a pattern of Maggie hiding painful truths -- this is at least the second time that we've seen -- and she knows Maggie well enough by now that she was able to understand the real cause of it, better than us TV viewers who only see them together for a few minutes a week. This was not an attack or a judgment, it was a gesture of love and support.

I mean, she'd just been told that her girlfriend had a history of cheating. Most TV shows would've used that as an excuse to create arbitrary conflict by having her get paranoid that she'd be cheated on too. But this is Supergirl, a show that favors optimism. So instead of going the petty, insecure route like most TV writers would have her do, Alex reacted in a very mature, selfless, understanding way. She understood that the reason Maggie kept the secret wasn't because she couldn't be trusted, but because it was hard for her to trust, because she was still scarred by her parents' rejection. She was actually a lot more mature and understanding about being lied to than Kara was last week with Mon-El.

Um, this is a superhero show, not a show about a superhero's adopted sister's love life.

What a completely bizarre statement. Countless superhero shows and comics have had ensemble casts and have had ongoing subplots about the personal and romantic lives of supporting characters beyond the superheroes themselves. All the CW superhero shows are ensemble dramas, like most of the shows on the network. You're only just noticing this now?

This subplot had nothing to do with the episode. It served no purpose. Had no relation. At least when Winn and J'onn got involved with someone it was with an alien.

It served a purpose because it focused on two of the main characters in the cast and advanced their character arc. It showed how much Alex has grown in their relationship; before, she was the tentative, uncertain one and Maggie was the one helping her find herself, but now, she's the emotional anchor helping Maggie heal her own deep-seated wounds. I think that's a very significant moment in their growth as a couple.

Her romance is MUCH less relevant than James', who last season was involved with Lucy Lane, and was a love interest of the MAIN CHARACTER. Now if Jimmy were involved with some random girl, and it had nothing to do with the main story, and we dedicated time each week to Jimmy and this girl, and his feelings, then yes, you'd be right.

This has always been a show about both Kara and Alex. The first season focused largely on exploring their relationship with each other; the second has mixed things up by putting them both in relationships with other people, in parallel to each other. Both of them have had romantic interests added to the main cast as regulars, Mon-El for Kara and Maggie for Alex. It's completely incorrect to treat one as more central than the other; Maggie is just as much a main character this season as Mon-El. In fact, Floriana Lima is billed before Chris Wood in the credits. There are seven regulars this season: in credits order, Kara, James, Alex, Winn, Maggie, Mon-El, and J'onn. The show is about all seven of them. That's how ensembles work.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

The show is called Supergirl, but it is an ensemble show.
It has more than one character.
Unlike a movie where I would agree to a degree.
If we see a Superman Film where a third of the screentime would be dedicated to Perry White's marriage for example, you'd be right.
But in an ensemble show every main character needs their own story arc to not just be a plot device.
If there would be no story around her, people would complain that the entire character is unnecessary, because Supergirl doesn't need her or anything.
And characters who only ever have a single interpersonal relationship to the perceived lead character are not believable.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Chyler Leigh is a good actress, and I like her and I like her character. The question I have, and I hope I'm not getting off topic, is, would these writers dedicate the same amount of time to this romance if Maggie were a man? What is the relevance of the storyline to a superhero show? If it was to say, being gay is fine, then they accomplished that in one episode. The characters accepted it. The romance could continue, but it's really not relevant enough to be on the front lines. What purpose did Maggie really serve this week?

How did finding out Maggie cheated in an old relationship affect the alien invasion?

An episode where Maggie is in danger by the villain of the week is relevant. A shocking episode where Maggie or Alex dies heroically makes the relationship relevant. Having dinner with Maggie's ex was a complete waste of time.

What a completely bizarre statement. Countless superhero shows and comics have had ensemble casts and have had ongoing subplots about the personal and romantic lives of supporting characters beyond the superheroes themselves. All the CW superhero shows are ensemble dramas, like most of the shows on the network. You're only just noticing this now?

If done similarly in similar situations, this irrelevant, and this much time, I'd be saying the same thing. No one is pretending there is no romance on CW shows, but they tend to involve the main character in some capacity. This is still a comic book show and Alex is still a new character, and just Supergirl's adopted sister. This much time is ridiculous, and it brought nothing to the table. I could have fast forwarded every single scene with Maggie and Alex and missed nothing relevant.

This has always been a show about both Kara and Alex. The first season focused largely on exploring their relationship with each other; the second has mixed things up by putting them both in relationships with other people, in parallel to each other. Both of them have had romantic interests added to the main cast as regulars, Mon-El for Kara and Maggie for Alex. It's completely incorrect to treat one as more central than the other; Maggie is just as much a main character this season as Mon-El. In fact, Floriana Lima is billed before Chris Wood in the credits. There are seven regulars this season: in credits order, Kara, James, Alex, Winn, Maggie, Mon-El, and J'onn. The show is about all seven of them. That's how ensembles work.

The show isn't called Kara and Alex. It's called Supergirl. A relationship between Supergirl and her sister is quite relevant. A major arc about her sister's love life, that doesn't involve an alien, a villain, or a major twist, is not relevant.

Kara and Alex are not, never have been, and never will be equal.

What's next, branching off and doing an arc on Maggie's jilted ex?

I agree that Alex needs relevance, but her job in the DEO and her relationship with Kara provides that relevance. She does have things to do that support Kara. Her love life is not relevant.

 

[Christopher]

Chyler Leigh is a good actress, and I like her and I like her character. The question I have, and I hope I'm not getting off topic, is, would these writers dedicate the same amount of time to this romance if Maggie were a man?

How much time are they devoting to Kara and Mon-El? Like I said, they added series-regular romantic interests for both leading ladies at the same time, and both relationships have gotten a comparable amount of focus.

What is the relevance of the storyline to a superhero show?

What is the relevance of, say, the Tom Paris-B'Elanna Torres romance to a show about the starship Voyager trying to get home? No show is exclusively about one thing.

An episode where Maggie is in danger by the villain of the week is relevant. A shocking episode where Maggie or Alex dies heroically makes the relationship relevant. Having dinner with Maggie's ex was a complete waste of time.

So you only think plot is relevant, not emotion or characterization? That's getting it backward. The events in a story are meaningful because of their emotional and personal impact on the characters.

The show isn't called Kara and Alex. It's called Supergirl.

Oh, come on. Countless ensemble shows are named for their main characters but have a much broader focus.

A relationship between Supergirl and her sister is quite relevant. A major arc about her sister's love life, that doesn't involve an alien, a villain, or a major twist, is not relevant.

Kara and Alex are not, never have been, and never will be equal.

I have to wonder if you've even been watching the same show as the rest of us. For Pete's sake, just read the damn credits. Chyler Leigh is billed third. It's simply counterfactual to treat her as a minor character.

I agree that Alex needs relevance, but her job in the DEO and her relationship with Kara provides that relevance. She does have things to do that support Kara. Her love life is not relevant.

You have a very cold, unfeeling definition of what is "relevant," and I feel very sorry for you.

 

[1001001]

Oh, come on. Countless ensemble shows are named for their main characters but have a much broader focus.

I disagree.

I mean, what kind of crazy person would say that Niles and Daphne's relationship was an important part of Frasier?

 

[Kirk Prime]

How much time are they devoting to Kara and Mon-El? Like I said, they added series-regular romantic interests for both leading ladies at the same time, and both relationships have gotten a comparable amount of focus.

First, if this is a two wrongs make a right defense, I agree with you--too much time. But at least Mon-El is an alien, and relevant to the main character, and Alex and Kara are not equal. Not even close.

What is the relevance of, say, the Tom Paris-B'Elanna Torres romance to a show about the starship Voyager trying to get home? No show is exclusively about one thing.

The writing choices of Star Trek Voyager is not really a starting point to defend a bad creative decision. Sure, no show is about just one thing, but these things should have some kind of relevance. At least on Voyager, Torres and Paris were two main characters--not a someone brought in just to be a romantic character.

Oh, come on. Countless ensemble shows are named for their main characters but have a much broader focus.

A broader focus doesn't mean an irrelevant one. I'll give you an example. Friday Night Lights was more than just a football show that focused on the lives of multiple main characters. Then one day, the writers decided to have a murder subplot. It was idiotic and irrelevant to the premise of the show. The entire time was wasted and no surprise, once it ended, the show got back on track.

I have to wonder if you've even been watching the same show as the rest of us. For Pete's sake, just read the damn credits. Chyler Leigh is billed third. It's simply counterfactual to treat her as a minor character.

Again, this is a comic book show, and she's invented for this show. She has no powers, and has no history. If her character died, the show would move on without blinking. So no, she's not that relevant, and if she were, she would not be sidelined worrying about her girlfriend's ex while the entire rest of the cast is dealing with the real story.

You have a very cold, unfeeling definition of what is "relevant," and I feel very sorry for you.

Yeah, that's not really relevant either. But not everyone is on board with a lesser character's love life having this much focus on a superhero show. If you can't see that, then that's your issue.

 

[Forbin]

You have a very cold, unfeeling definition of what is "relevant," and I feel very sorry for you.

Hey, now, don't get personal - you're a better person that that, Christopher.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Ahhh Kirk Prime, from On High, you have been judged (for manufactured reasons). Beware.

 

[dahj]

Alex is great.
Alex + Maggie scenes =

Sorry some of you don't like it.

 

[DigificWriter]

I didn't particularly care for the Alex/Maggie subplot myself, @Kirk Prime, but your arguments against it really don't make much sense once you get beyond "I don't see how it was relevant to the rest of the episode".

It's especially hard to take you seriously when you're "downgrading" Alex's importance just because she's a wholly original creation, which is a notion that runs entirely counter to reality.

 

[Christopher]

It's especially hard to take you seriously when you're "downgrading" Alex's importance just because she's a wholly original creation, which is a notion that runs entirely counter to reality.

Yup. Plenty of superhero-comic adaptations have given central roles to original characters -- Diggle in Arrow, Wells in The Flash, Sara Lance in Arrow and Legends, nearly the entire core casts of Agents of SHIELD and Batman Beyond, Chloe in Smallville, Richie in Static Shock, everyone in Legion except the lead character and his nemesis, etc. Not to mention all the characters that debuted in adaptations and were then added back into the comics -- Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Harley Quinn, Renee Montoya, Livewire, X-23, Agent Coulson, etc. There's no hierarchy of worth. Stories are stories. They draw on each others' ideas and add their own.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I didn't particularly care for the Alex/Maggie subplot myself, @Kirk Prime, but your arguments against it really don't make much sense once you get beyond "I don't see how it was relevant to the rest of the episode".

It's especially hard to take you seriously when you're "downgrading" Alex's importance just because she's a wholly original creation, which is a notion that runs entirely counter to reality.

First, not being relevant to the rest of the episode is absolutely a valid reason to not like something. Good writing requires everything to be relevant. To go off on a tangent like this is not strong writing at all.

And I think these writers overall, are actually very good. But this storyline is just not up to par with the rest of the series in my opinion.

This recent episode is an exclamation point on this plotline.

And it's also quite relevant that Alex being a wholly original creation, is not as important as characters that have been around for decades. The show was not sold on the basis of Alex Danvers and her love life. If so, that's an entirely different show and maybe they should spin that off. But the show is Supergirl, which is a superhero show. Everything involved in this show should have some relevance to the A storyline or a superhero. We have some great, legendary characters on this show, and their plots are relevant. Alex's status in comic book lore, which is nonexistent, is why it really isn't justifiable to me to spend this much time on it. I would probably have a different attitude if it wasn't still going on and being given this much time. We get it. She has a girlfriend. Cool, now get back to Supergirl and her team doing super things.


Now you mention you didn't care for the Alex/Maggie subplot yourself. Maybe your reasons are different than mine. What is it about this subplot that you're not enjoying?

 

[DigificWriter]

@Kirk Prime My issue with the Alex/Maggie B-plot is that it was out-of-place within the context of the episode. Full Stop.

However, that's not really the point here. You don't have to like the way that Alex and Maggie fit into this episode, but to sit here and claim that original characters are somehow "less" because they're original is to peddle "Alternative Facts" and lessens your credibility.

 

[Christopher]

My issue with the Alex/Maggie B-plot is that it was out-of-place within the context of the episode. Full Stop.

I don't get that. It's quite commonplace in TV for an episode to have two or more subplots that are unrelated to each other. Especially in today's serialized shows where there are several ongoing plot and character arcs developing in parallel.

If you want a thematic connection, like the theme of betrayal and forgiveness that linked last week's otherwise unrelated Kara/Mon-El and Winn/Lyra subplots... well, how about the contrast between the relationships at the core of the two main plots? Alex was faced with a loved one keeping her distance and chose to listen, understand, and reach out, while Rhea was faced with a loved one keeping his distance and instead chose to reject and condemn. So Alex's loving approach to her problem with Maggie threw Rhea's selfish, dysfunctional reaction into sharper contrast.

 

[dahj]

First, not being relevant to the rest of the episode is absolutely a valid reason to not like something. Good writing requires everything to be relevant. To go off on a tangent like this is not strong writing at all.

The writers have had trouble fitting all the various storylines together this season, that is true. They were much better at it in season 1 when even if A and B storylines didn't connect at plot points they usually connected very well thematically.

These episodes are not entirely standalone however, so even when bits don't fit together the best within the episode they're still relevant as part of an ongoing season.

James, J'onn, Mon-El, Winn, Lena and yes, Alex... all have continuing storylines, and there's a little bit for everyone there so I don't get why you're singling out this particular subplot or why it bothers you so much(I mean I do know why, but I'm giving you the benefit of doubt...)

 

[DigificWriter]

I don't get that. It's quite commonplace in TV for an episode to have two or more subplots that are unrelated to each other. Especially in today's serialized shows where there are several ongoing plot and character arcs developing in parallel.

I know this is a common storytelling device, but it felt jarring to me in this particular episode, largely because I was judging it solely on the merits of what it was presenting.

If you want a thematic connection, like the theme of betrayal and forgiveness that linked last week's otherwise unrelated Kara/Mon-El and Winn/Lyra subplots... well, how about the contrast between the relationships at the core of the two main plots? Alex was faced with a loved one keeping her distance and chose to listen, understand, and reach out, while Rhea was faced with a loved one keeping his distance and instead chose to reject and condemn. So Alex's loving approach to her problem with Maggie threw Rhea's selfish, dysfunctional reaction into sharper contrast.

That's a perspective that hadn't occurred to me, but when you spell it out like that, it makes total sense and actually solves my complaint, so thank you.

 

[Christopher]

That's a perspective that hadn't occurred to me, but when you spell it out like that, it makes total sense and actually solves my complaint, so thank you.

Wow. You were surprisingly easy to convince. Are we in a musical?

 

[DigificWriter]

Wow. You were surprisingly easy to convince.

What can I say? I bow to well-reasoned logic fairly quickly, especially if there's fact-based evidence to support it.

Are we in a musical?

Hee.

 

[cylkoth]

Maggie was wrong in painting the ex as the bad guy in the relationship, but she had no obligation to tell Alex about the cheating.

Everyone has the right to keep some secret from his/her partner. S/he is not a detached analyst and you can't know how s/he can react to the revelation.

But Alex has behaved as if he had the right to know every single detail of Maggie's life. I didn't like it.

Lucy Lane redux. I'm guessing they miss her so much, they decided to have Alex inherit her entitled, cling-on introductory character trait.