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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

I'm not going to force any conversation about sexuality on her at her age. She's seven, and just barely seven at that. She has absolutely no concept of sexuality, has never asked a single question about it, and I really don't want to force the topic during a show about a super hero. If she asks questions, sure, we'll talk about it with her.

You don't need to talk about sex to talk about love and relationships. If she can understand that men can marry women, she can understand that men can marry men. If she can understand that a kid has a mommy and a daddy, she can understand that a kid has two mommies. It's actually a lot simpler if you don't address the sexual aspect, because then it's just about feelings and not how parts fit together. The only thing that's different is the pronouns.

My daughter who is 8 and her friends saw a lesbian couple on a movie or television show a year or saw ago. They asked my wife if to women could be girlfriend and girlfriend and my wife said yes or two boys could be boyfriends. The group of them literally shrugged their shoulders and went back to watching television. Kids are much more accepting than adults because every day the learn something different about the world.

Right. Kids have no preconceptions. Whatever they see around them, they accept as normal. They'd only have trouble accepting sexual or gender or racial diversity if they aren't exposed to it early in life, if they're raised with the fiction that uniformity is normal and then have to discover later that the world doesn't really work that way. Hiding reality from them when they're young will just make it harder to accept when they're older.

Thanks guys. This is pretty much what I was getting at. My daughter is 5 and we always frame discussions of relationships in terms of love and not sexuality. It doesn't phase her in the slightest. As I said, it's only a big deal if you make it a big deal.
 
The big difference between Kara Danvers and Clark Kent in terms of the way those identities coalesce with their alter-egos of Supergirl and Superman, respectively, is that, for Clark, who he is in that identity and the way he behaves is as much an act as who Bruce Wayne is and how he behaves when he's not suited up as Batman, whereas, for Kara, what you see is what you get. Who she is when she's not flying around saving people is exactly who she is; it's who she's been probably since very early on in her teenage life here on Earth, and it's who she'll continue to be going forward even though she now has this outlet for embracing and becoming the person she'd come to Earth expecting to be.

I've heard some people complaining about the number of people who know her "secret identity", but as I've been saying for months, she doesn't actually HAVE a "secret identity" as such.
 
The big difference between Kara Danvers and Clark Kent in terms of the way those identities coalesce with their alter-egos of Supergirl and Superman, respectively, is that, for Clark, who he is in that identity and the way he behaves is as much an act as who Bruce Wayne is and how he behaves when he's not suited up as Batman,

You are so wrong.

Yes, Bruce Wayne is an act that Batman puts on, but Clark Kent and Superman are the exact opposite. Quote Supes in "Man of Steel:" "I was raised in Kansas, general..."

For him, Superman is the act, the one that lets him help people in a way that keeps them from intruding in Clark Kent's regular life.

Clark and Kara are the exact same alter-egos, kids raised by farm folk with a desire to help but not a desire to give up living. The Superman and Supergirl identities provide that same outlet to both of them.

The reason that happened was because she felt that Supergirl wasn't as good as Superman (possibily owing to Toyman killing her son in one story) and she felt that Supergirl should not be a hero.

So I literally caught that story at the end, according to the wiki. I remember Cat tied up and thinking "I'll never live this down" before she calls out "SUPERGIRL!"
 
None of the portrayals of Superman that I've EVER seen have portrayed him as being clumsy, uncoordinated, and borderline stupid during his childhood or his "normal life" before he reveals himself as Superman, yet that's exactly how he behaves as the adult Clark Kent, employee of the Daily Planet, in all of those same portrayals. That's why I called his Clark Kent identity an act. It isn't in any way reflective of who he actually is as a person, just as Bruce Wayne's playboy image isn't at all reflective of who HE actually is as a person.

The way Kara behaves when she's not flying around, however, DOES accurately reflect who she is as a person.
 
I've been reading Superman since Crisis on Infinite Earth's and in all the stuff I have read he is not portrayed as a bumbling nerd like he is in the Donner films. He may work at not standing out much but that's about it.
 
None of the portrayals of Superman that I've EVER seen have portrayed him as being clumsy, uncoordinated, and borderline stupid during his childhood or his "normal life" before he reveals himself as Superman, yet that's exactly how he behaves as the adult Clark Kent, employee of the Daily Planet, in all of those same portrayals. That's why I called his Clark Kent identity an act. It isn't in any way reflective of who he actually is as a person, just as Bruce Wayne's playboy image isn't at all reflective of who HE actually is as a person.

So you never saw Superman-the Movie? Or reprints of the original comics?

Only the clumsiness is an act. It is not Clark's identity as a whole. On the other hand, everything about Bruce Wayne is an act, because the moment Bruce came up with the idea for Batman, he started thinking of himself as Batman.

There is a lot about Clark Kent that's a genuine persona. Bruce Wayne is no more real than Matches Malone in the eyes of the guy that created both identities.

There are more similarities between Clark and Kara than there will ever be between Clark and Bruce.
 
Clark acts like a bumbling nerd as an adult in Lois and Clark, Superman the Animated Series, Man of Steel, Superman Returns, John Byrne's Man of Steel miniseries, Superman Secret Origins, and Superman: Earth One but is shown to not be that way earlier in his life in each of those, so I stand by my statement.
 
None of the portrayals of Superman that I've EVER seen have portrayed him as being clumsy, uncoordinated, and borderline stupid during his childhood or his "normal life" before he reveals himself as Superman, yet that's exactly how he behaves as the adult Clark Kent, employee of the Daily Planet, in all of those same portrayals. That's why I called his Clark Kent identity an act. It isn't in any way reflective of who he actually is as a person, just as Bruce Wayne's playboy image isn't at all reflective of who HE actually is as a person.

That depends. In the pre-Crisis (pre-1986) comics, and in the Reeve movies, Superman was who he really was and the nebbishy, bumbling Clark Kent was a constructed persona he built as a disguise. But when John Byrne rebooted the character in '86, he reasoned that Kal-El would've grown from infancy thinking of himself as Clark Kent, so that should be his core persona. So in the post-Crisis version, Clark was the real person (and was no longer portrayed as bumbling and timid) and Superman was a role he created for himself. This is the angle Lois and Clark took, since it came out in the post-Byrne era.

(Then there are things like the '40s radio and '50s TV versions, where Lois and others frequently described Clark as timid and weak, even though his characterization was often quite bold and intrepid, a crusading investigative reporter rather than an affable klutz. So his timidity was more an informed trait than an actual one.)



The way Kara behaves when she's not flying around, however, DOES accurately reflect who she is as a person.

No way -- it's just the opposite of that. It's a persona she's spent the last 12 years building in order to hide who she is and what she can do. It's the shell she's retreated into as a pretense of normality and conformity. When she came out of that shell and used her powers, she felt more like herself than she had in over a decade. Supergirl is the real her, the protector that she was sent to Earth to be.


Clark acts like a bumbling nerd as an adult in Lois and Clark, Superman the Animated Series, Man of Steel, Superman Returns, John Byrne's Man of Steel miniseries, Superman Secret Origins, and Superman: Earth One but is shown to not be that way earlier in his life in each of those, so I stand by my statement.

That is an incredibly wrong statement. I've just been rewatching Lois and Clark, and there's nothing remotely bumbling or nerdy about its Clark Kent. He was the romantic lead, the great-looking guy that Cat Grant was eagerly pursuing and Lois was attracted to despite herself. He was the cool guy that Jimmy Olsen looked up to. In Superman: TAS, there was no trace of bumbling -- as with George Reeves, Clark was a crusading reporter with a no-nonsense manner. (Tim Daly actually gave Clark a deeper voice than Superman.) Both were following the lead of Byrne, who made Clark the object of Lois's affections rather than Superman.

Superman Returns doesn't count, since it's basically a big-budget Richard Donner fan film, resurrecting the Bronze Age version of Superman decades after the fact. And Man of Steel gave us maybe 30 seconds of Clark in his bespectacled reporter persona, so it's too early to tell what approach they'll take.
 
Clark acts like a bumbling nerd as an adult in Lois and Clark, Superman the Animated Series, Man of Steel, Superman Returns, John Byrne's Man of Steel miniseries, Superman Secret Origins, and Superman: Earth One but is shown to not be that way earlier in his life in each of those, so I stand by my statement.

Again, that's just the clumsiness, not his good nature, his sense of justice and fairplay or his willingness to help those in need no matter what clothes he's wearing. Those are ideas he was raised with and have jack to do with what he does to throw people off his other identity.

Clark Kent's bumbling is an act. Clark Kent period isn't.
 
I've gotta say, I agree with everything Christoper said in his last post. When Byrne rebooted Superman he deliberately made Clark Kent a normal guy and that's pretty much how he has been portrayed since then.
 
Clark acts like a bumbling nerd as an adult in Lois and Clark,
No. Dean Cain played him very much in the vein of John Byrne's Clark.
Superman the Animated Series,
No.
Man of Steel,
You mean the guy working on the crab boat? The bartender that stood up to the bully trucker? No.
Superman Returns,
OK, yeah, that was definitely a pre-crisis portrayal of Clark, based on the Donner movies.
John Byrne's Man of Steel miniseries,
No. John Byrne went out of his way to NOT portray Clark that way.
 
Well, I watched the premier last night. Not sure if I like it or not. Not sure if it will last more than one season or not. But she's hot, so I'm in :D
 
Besides, one would have to live in a cave to avoid hearing words like "lesbians" on national television. Oh horrors! :rolleyes:

I wondered if my son or daughter would say anything. They didn't. They've asked what 'gay' meant before and I told them.

I've got three kids (two adult) and being honest with them about sexuality didn't cause any of them to become gay.

People need to realize that being exposed to those concepts isn't what is going to decide whether or not their children are gay. It is something inside them from birth, they are going to be who they are going to be.

End PSA.
 
None of the portrayals of Superman that I've EVER seen have portrayed him as being clumsy, uncoordinated, and borderline stupid during his childhood or his "normal life" before he reveals himself as Superman, yet that's exactly how he behaves as the adult Clark Kent, employee of the Daily Planet, in all of those same portrayals. That's why I called his Clark Kent identity an act. It isn't in any way reflective of who he actually is as a person

Then, i'm not sure how long you've been exposed to Superman comics and adaptations. The Clark side has been somewhere from bumbling, sheepish or even frightened from time to time, with occasional ironic humor he would aim at Lois. Further, with the debut of Superboy (1944), the pre-teen / teen Clark only supported those traits in his Smallville-based stories. Additionally, in animation, the Fleischer Superman series (1941-'43), the Superman serials (Columbia, 1948 & 1950) The New Adventures of Superman (Filmation, 1966-'69) all played up Clark Kent as either timid, bumbling and just about anything opposite of Superman's hyper-confident self.

The point is that the Clark you thought did not exist has been around for almost as long as the character in print. The Donner films only took that further to successfully paint Clark and Superman as being two, distinct personalities in the same mind, but that is a part of how he was raised. As a child, he was not strutting around, authoritative as he is in costume.
 
When Kara puts on that suit, she doesn't take on a different personality than she has when she's not in it; all that putting the suit on does is give her permission to be a whole person rather than just 'half' of a person (which is what her life up until the point where she flies and rescues her sister and the other passengers on that plane had been centered on), whereas, with Clark, I've always felt he was one person as Superman and an entirely different person, one which didn't accurately reflect who he was, as Clark.

With Kara, she's Kara when she's got that cape on and she's still Kara when she's living her day-to-day life; she's just emphasizing different parts of herself.
 
whereas, with Clark, I've always felt he was one person as Superman and an entirely different person, one which didn't accurately reflect who he was, as Clark.

Again, that's the way it was pre-1986, when it was assumed that he'd been Superboy and even Superbaby and had total photographic memory going back to his toddler years on Krypton. But ever since Byrne's reboot, it's been the reverse. The modern idea is that he was raised from infancy thinking of himself as Clark Kent, son of Jonathan and Martha. In many modern interpretations (including the Byrne version, Lois and Clark, S:TAS, Smallville, and Birthright), he didn't even learn he was Kal-El from Krypton until his adolescence or adulthood, so it would've made no sense for him to think of Clark Kent as a false persona.


With Kara, she's Kara when she's got that cape on and she's still Kara when she's living her day-to-day life; she's just emphasizing different parts of herself.

You're talking about it as though it's a static thing. Kara has been suppressing a part of her identity for years and has now embraced it. That's bound to change who she is and how she thinks of herself, and we're going to be following that change as the series progresses. It's no accident that Winn thought Kara was coming out as a lesbian when she described what it was like for her. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of allegory for that here.
 
No, she wasn't planning to reveal herself. She'd chosen to hide her powers and aspire to be "normal," and that included hiding behind glasses and shapeless clothes. She was chafing against the limits she'd imposed on herself, but she didn't actually decide to move beyond those limits until the plane crash forced her to, and then she was surprised by her own unwillingness to go back within her shell. It wasn't premeditated at all.

Yeah but after she saves the plane she tells her sister that this is the kind of difference she was wanting to make for a while now, and she had clearly been frustrated with her current role. So even if it wasn't a specific "plan" of hers, it could still have been something in the back of her mind that she thought might be useful, for when she finally decided to act.

Since it's pretty clear whatever "difference" she was going to make was going to involve superpowers and saving people.

was starting to get mildly annoyed at the lengths they went to to avoid saying Superman. Forget whether they said it the once in Cat's office (when arguing over supergirl's name), but in general lots of twisting around talking about her cousin, Him, the big guy, etc. Felt odd that they weren't just saying Superman occasionally. Especially if he's been active that long in this story.

I still don't understand why people get so annoyed by this. Even on other Superman shows he's often been referred to by other names (Kal, Smallville, the boy scout, the man in blue, the caped wonder, the man of steel, etc).

It's clear the Supergirl writers were just trying to come up with some other cute and clever ways to refer to him, while also not drawing too much attention to his absence. But whether he's called Superman or Kara's cousin, it's always pretty darn clear who they're talking about, I would think.

And hell, even in the season preview he's referred to again as Superman, so it's clear the writers don't have THAT big a problem with it.
 
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