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Summon the Thunder (Spoilers)

JD said:
Baerbel Haddrell said:
JD said:

Baerable, did you catch the hidden Lost reference? If I remember correctluy in one part it talks about how the code for the Zakdorn's briefcase needs to be enterened every 108 min.

Not so long ago I got a catalogue addressed to "Bearable Haddrell". You didn`t quite write that, but "Baerable" made me smile, too. :)

Sorry about that, Baerble.

:D

This variation is quite common.

No problem, I am used to it.
 
Finally obtained and finished Summon the Thunder.

Easier said than done - on both counts, sorry to say...

If there's one word to describe StT, it's "excessively verbose and redundantly self-repetitive". Uh, I mean "talky".

There's a lot happening in that book, but most of it has already happened once, in Harbringer. Several of the key elements here are mere repeat acts: Quinn's interaction with his various masters, Xiong's research, Sandesjo and T'Prynn's spooking, Jetanien's tirades. There is a big battle involving one of Vanguard's starships, but it reads much like the final fight of the Bombay: redshirts are introduced and fleshed out, and then that flesh is put through a grinder, while the characters familiar from the previous book soldier on. The nuances and the different characters don't quite manage to give this episode dramatic independence.

There are novel and quite outstanding elements to the book, of course. We see the Klingon and Tholian points of view for the first time. Or, rather, in StT we see these elements twice, when in Harbringer we saw them "halfce". Where Mack leaves 50% of an event to imagination, Ward&Dilmore spell it out once, then repeat the description or revelation or introspection in a succeeding paragraph, sometimes running out of synonyms in the process.

Still, we do finally learn solid facts about the Tholians. And the three-way battle between the Klingons, their subjects, and the Sentinel's forces is sheer magic, and a delightful contrast to how our Starfleet heroes fared in a similar fight earlier on. A little less Klingonese and a little more character interaction would have made it even more interesting, though.

Contrary to some of the opinions here, I found the Romulan viewpoint beneficial to the overall story. While their invisible presence and ultimate demise affects nothing, it also nicely accentuates the fact that nothing outstanding really happens elsewhere in the story, either. The Romulans are silent witnesses to the featureless inevitability of it all. Whoever doubted that Starfleet research would unravel the mysteries of the meta-genome? Was there any question that the disagreements between the Empires would escalate to open hostilities? These things happened, not because or despite our heroes were involved, but because they were fated to happen.

As a necessary interlude to a greater story arc, StT serves with valor. But exactly because it is part of such an arc, it seems highly superfluous that it would recap past events at all. If people don't buy Harbringer either before or after reading StT, they aren't interested in the overall story anyway; if they do buy it, they will be annoyingly spoiled by the exposition in StT. This book isn't appetizer, it is sheer filling. After the reading experience, I'm all the more in favor of Mack's "halfce" writing style.

Timo Saloniemi
 
^^Right. And it's pronounced with a soft G sound, like "binge." It has nothing whatsoever to do with the word "bring." It means a forerunner, something that heralds or foreshadows an oncoming event. (Apparently it's from a root word meaning "person sent ahead to arrange lodgings for an army." Interesting.)
 
Harbinger? Fancy that. Thanks for the correction!

Not "hear-bringer" at all?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:


As a necessary interlude to a greater story arc, StT serves with valor. But exactly because it is part of such an arc, it seems highly superfluous that it would recap past events at all. If people don't buy Harbringer either before or after reading StT, they aren't interested in the overall story anyway; if they do buy it, they will be annoyingly spoiled by the exposition in StT. This book isn't appetizer, it is sheer filling. After the reading experience, I'm all the more in favor of Mack's "halfce" writing style.

Timo Saloniemi


If you prefer the style of book one or two, that is a personal choice. I preferred the second book because although I love a mystery I don`t love it when I am unable to completely follow what the author wants to tell his or her audience.

From discussions I read afterwards I learned that I am not the only reader who had problems. That alone makes it important to spell out properly in the next book for everyone what the basics of the series really is before starting to add new elements. It is like math: If you don`t have the basic knowledge completely, you will feel more and more lost when new twists and turns are added.

I usually just sigh when people tell me, I read a very rough guide of the most important elements in book X and now it is so "spoiled" that people wouldn`t be interested, even annoyed when they read this book. There are so many character elements and storylines never mentioned in book two or only hinted at, I think that argument is complete nonsense and doesn`t do book one any justice.

Also, of course people also have the right to buy this book first and be able to enjoy it without feeling forced to buy the rest. All ongoing series keep this in mind because each book may be the first book of a series for the customer who bought it. Especially with long running series, telling for example a DS9 R fan who just bought the latest book, if you want to understand it, here is a [very long] list of all books of that series you HAVE to read, they wouldn`t be happy about that.
 
Timo said:
Harbinger? Fancy that. Thanks for the correction!

Not "hear-bringer" at all?

"Hear"??? Where'd that long E sound come from? It's pronounced exactly like it's spelled. Har as in Harcourt Fenton Mudd, bin as in trash bin, ger as in geranium.
 
Timo said:
As a necessary interlude to a greater story arc, StT serves with valor. But exactly because it is part of such an arc, it seems highly superfluous that it would recap past events at all. If people don't buy Harbringer either before or after reading StT, they aren't interested in the overall story anyway; if they do buy it, they will be annoyingly spoiled by the exposition in StT.
Not necessarily. One could be interested in the Vanguard story arc, but not like David Mack's writing style, and therefore give his books a pass. :)
 
ATimson said:
One could be interested in the Vanguard story arc, but not like David Mack's writing style, and therefore give his books a pass. :)
Hrm, never too early to start making holiday shopping lists. ... Let's see now ... tequila for Terri, scotch for Keith, Pepto Bismol for Marco ... and oh yes, a crate of scorpions mislabeled as chocolates for ATimson.... ;)
 
^ But on the bright side, some arachnologist is going to be pleasantly surprised this holiday season.

"Chocolates? For me? Oh, how kind. I must send this Mr. Mack something in return. Perhaps this lovely specimen of Theraphosidae Selenocosmia, ah yes..."

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
"Hear"??? Where'd that long E sound come from?

Oh, nowhere. I just expressed amazement that the etymology of the word didn't derive from the "bringing" of the "hear".

Also, of course people also have the right to buy this book first and be able to enjoy it without feeling forced to buy the rest. All ongoing series keep this in mind because each book may be the first book of a series for the customer who bought it. Especially with long running series, telling for example a DS9 R fan who just bought the latest book, if you want to understand it, here is a [very long] list of all books of that series you HAVE to read, they wouldn`t be happy about that.

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't think the right solution to the problem is to incorporate every other book in the book at hand in order to bring the reader "up to pace". Even if somebody wants to jump in at the middle of a story, the story train still shouldn't come to a screeching halt just for him.

It's not as if we got flashback scenes to the occupation era every time Gul Dukat appeared in DS9, either. People were expected to grok that he was the former master of the station from the flow of the dialogue, or from having watched the first few episodes.

Heck, a dedicated "Last time in ST:Vanguard" chapter before the first plot chapter would be more elegant than ballasting the actual story with exposition.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I go back and forth on the whole "bring readers up to date" thing. I personally thought it was done really well in Summon the Thunder. I had just finished Harbinger right before I started in on StT and it still didn't bother me for a little recap.

It has bothered me in a few other books. Unity comes to mind. I remember being frustrated as Ezri told Julian the entire story of Audrid's experience from The Lives of Dax. But that so far to me has been the exception rather than the rule.
 
I think it is preferable to err on the side of repeating some information than to leave the reader in the dark. In the case of Vanguard, it's still early in the series. We do not know what information is crucial to the arc, so maybe certain points need to be pounded into our heads. I don't think Summon the Thunder was too heavy-handed with recaps, but for those who did, maybe future stories will make you see them with a different perspective.
 
Personally, I had no problem with the amount of recapping in Summon the Thunder. I had just finished Harbinger before reading StT, and the recapping didn't seem at all excesive to me. It was just enough to understand how the current event linked into the events of the first book, but not so much that it took away from the story, IMO.
 
It just shows to go ya -- you put the same plate in front of the diners, and they'll all taste it differently and react according to their palates and preferences.

I really enjoy reading your comments, and I very much appreciate all of the thought and time each of you have put into commenting on Summon the Thunder regardless of your ultimate responses to it on the whole. It's very flattering that you would do so given all the other demands on our lives.

I look forward to hearing what you all think about Book 3. It will assuredly keep the party rockin'.

Kevin
 
Timo said:
I don't think the right solution to the problem is to incorporate every other book in the book at hand in order to bring the reader "up to pace".

After seeing the author come in this forum and write a post, with citations from the book, explaining what happened in Harbinger, I'm not surprised the StT authors felt they should recap.

It may not have been strictly for new readers.
 
I just started reading this book today and I have to stay it has one of the more interesting opening chapters I've read in a long time.
 
I just finished it and found it just all right. I have a question about T'Prynn but do not recall how to consistently use the spoiler mask.
 
It should be ok as long as you just say that there are spoilers in your post.
 
Re: Summon the Thunder (Spoiler Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Which came first: the affair between T'Prynn and Sandesjo or the use of Sandesjo as a double agent?
 
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