Summon the Thunder (Spoilers)

[Kevin Dilmore]

haubrija said:
I recently started Summon the Thunder right off finishing Harbinger and have avoided this thread so as to miss any spoilers. However, I have to ask about this reference on p. 69.

... and the navigator, Lieutenant McCormack, well he did recognize her, , as she was one of his favorite objects of unrequieted affection on the entire ship.

Am I correct in assuming that this refers to Una McCormack? And if so which one of you fellas wrote that?

I'll take this because it was my name drop.

Although I admire her writing and I'm sure that she's worthy of many unrequited affections, actually, it wasn't an intentional reference to the Ms. McCormack of whom you speak.

The true tale is a bit embarassing to me, though, as it was intended as a name drop for my friends Lisa and Dave McCormick -- with an I. I initially thought that the name got changed somewhere within our editing processes, but in checking our first drafts, that name spelling originated wth me. I flubbed it up.

So, yes, a name drop. But no, not for whom you thought.

Kevin

 

[Dayton Ward]

EDIT: Bubba covered it.

 

[Rat Boy]

Christopher said:
In reality, ion propulsion is a very, very low-acceleration engine type, the sort of thing that takes days to get up to any appreciable speed, but can be sustained longer than conventional rockets and thus allow greater acceleration over the long haul and faster interplanetary travel, on the order of months rather than years. And it's a propulsion technique we already have today. So there's no way it could be a form of super-advanced FTL drive that Scotty would be amazed by. And there's no way it could be a crude, backward form of FTL drive either. I mean, we're talking something that would take hours to get up to freeway speeds -- it's not even in the ballpark for interstellar drives.

However, again the key is in the exact words -- in, I believe, every reference except one, it was called ion power rather than ion propulsion or ion drive. So it could refer simply to the power source that enabled the ship's warp engines to function, rather than the actual propulsive mechanism (just as an ion rocket uses electrical power). My preferred retcon is that it's the "polaric ion power" seen in VGR's "Time and Again." That was depicted as a power source so dangerous and unstable that the Federation, Klingons and Romulans mutually agreed to ban it in 2268 -- no more than two years after the Romulans' isolation ended, so it must've been pretty important to bring them together at that time. So it stands to reason that Scotty would be amazed by a technology that could harness it safely. (And as it happens, "Spock's Brain" would probably take place in late 2268.)

My memory on this one is even more hazy, but wasn't the Orion ship Sulu and Chekov were stuck on in Prime Directive powered by a nuclear reactor?

 

[Timo]

Yup.

...No doubt a reference to the radioactively leaking engine in TAS "Pirates of Orion"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dayton Ward]

Christopher said:
In reality, ion propulsion is a very, very low-acceleration engine type, the sort of thing that takes days to get up to any appreciable speed, but can be sustained longer than conventional rockets and thus allow greater acceleration over the long haul and faster interplanetary travel, on the order of months rather than years. And it's a propulsion technique we already have today.

Yup, I'm aware of all this. I was referring specifically to its use/references/portrayal in Trek.

So there's no way it could be a form of super-advanced FTL drive that Scotty would be amazed by. And there's no way it could be a crude, backward form of FTL drive either. I mean, we're talking something that would take hours to get up to freeway speeds -- it's not even in the ballpark for interstellar drives.

Preaching to the choir, here. Tell it to Scotty...he's the one sporting wood in the episode in his excitement to study the ship

 

[Ronald Held]

In that episode, did it say ion propulsion or ion power? I remember the later.

 

[raleighrob]

Smiley said:
I did not reread Harbinger before starting Summon the Thunder, and I had no trouble following what happened. The recaps done as character memories were quite effective, and they also gave a new angle on old events.

This helps alot when you have a serial novel situation, and the separate parts are released months and months apart. (Not just Vanguard, but DS9-R, Vulcan's Soul, and a few others.)
As a reader, I really appreciate it.
I'm not saying it's needed in *all* books...certainly if "part one" is released in May and "part two" is released in June, then you don't need those flashbacks as much.
But these days many Trek books are like a year apart...so these types of "memory reviews" are very useful!!

 

[Dayton Ward]

raleighrob said:
I'm not saying it's needed in *all* books...certainly if "part one" is released in May and "part two" is released in June, then you don't need those flashbacks as much.

That would assume everyone reads the books either a) as they're released, b) in rapid succession, c) they're able to find and read "Part 1" before starting "Part 2," etc. That's not always the case, so one has to find the right balance for such recapping. Sometimes it ends up not being enough, sometimes it's too much, but one has to make the effort in order to appeal to a larger audience.

 

[JeremyW]

Marco Palmieri said:

Elemental said:
And one other thing that confused me a bit - the cover of the book shows two people walking along the top of the starbase. While I know that the covers are not always the best indicator of what is going to happen in a book (especially in some of the older ST novels), I had been expecting this to be a depiction of some plot point of the novel (as book 1 showed the Enterprise at the station). I suppose now though that it was just meant to be a pretty picture.

Well, no--it is something from the story: the arrival of the Lovell. You've simply focused on one detail and thought it was more important that what the image overall is depicting.

^ Reading the above, all I could think about was Teabing's line from 'The DaVinci Code':

"It's called scotoma. The mind sees what it wants."

Now, onto a more serious note, I must say that I really enjoyed "Summon The Thunder". The book kept leaving me wanting more, and as a result, I've come to appreciate the world of "The Original Series" a whole lot more. I eagerly await "Reap The Whirlwind" (especially since I saw a citation as to the source of the title), and in a 'Holy S*it' moment, I must now mis-quote another television program.

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Oh my God, they blew up a planet! You b*stards!"

Dayton/Kevin, fantastic work on 'Summon The Thunder'. I eagerly await the saga of Sato I in her golden glory.

 

[mug]

After re-reading Harbinger, I read Summon the Thunder, and am now ready to make my little contribution to this thread, 25% of the content of which has been about font size, but no matter.

First of all, I want to make it clear that I have significant respect for all novelists, because writing a novel is a pretty huge undertaking. I speak from the wealth of experience I gained trying Nanowrimo. Once. And I know this book is a massive one by Trek paperback standards. I read most TrekLit on a Palm, so it's always obvious which books are longer than others -- this one clocked in at over 2000 "pages" ("screens" would be more accurate) where most full novels are between 900-1400 (S.C.E. are between 300-500).

I have to say this book left me a little cold. But I'm not sure if that's a product of any deficiency on the part of Mssrs. Ward and Dilmore or just my lingering unfamiliarity with this time and place in the Trek universe. I do think this book continues the development of the cast of characters quite nicely.

Summon gets points for making the Romulans more interesting than they usually are (I generally find Romulans put a lead weight on any and all stories in which they appear), but the Klingons fared less well in my estimation. They lacked the spark that they've had in other novels I've read recently.

The Shedai wanderer stuff was done quite well -- those Sentinels were pretty terrifying. Another story element I liked was the the destruction of Palgrenax. Like, "Oh my God, they are seriously going to blow up the planet!" Very cool.

I had been wondering when we would find out how much T'Prynn knew about Anna's identity. T'Prynn has been written as far too savvy, skilled, and damn-near omniscient to not know that the woman she's sleeping with is a Klingon agent! My money was on T'Prynn secretly knowing the truth and waiting to use it to her advantage, but the double-agent thing works, too.

I didn't catch the Lost reference, though -- good one!

I liked the Quinn/Pennington stuff, too -- especially the scenes with the Klingon probe.

But I do feel bad for the poor, orphaned slijm.

It seemed to me that this book had a lot less "recapping" than other books I've read recently -- a nice change, especially when you read the books back to back.

Anyway, congratulations on a solid effort, gentlemen! I look forward to reading the annotations, because I am an annotation nerd.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

S P O I L E R

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I liked “Harbinger” in spite that I needed lessons after posting my review of what I missed and what I got wrong. As much as I enjoyed the start of “Vanguard”, I think it would have been better to point out certain facts more clearly and not be too overly mysterious. Fortunately, “Summon the Thunder” is a big improvement in that regard. What happened in the first book was now spelled out very clearly and early on within the ongoing story so that I felt comfortably settled in and ready to move forward. New revelations, new twists are building on what went on before but this time I didn`t feel overwhelmed or wondered if the authors meant to tell me something but I didn`t get it. If I am right or not, I guess I will find out after I posted this but at least I am much more optimistic than before that this time I got everything I was meant to get.

“Vanguard” is certainly always good for surprises and that is true on more than one level. Again, I got to know quite a few interesting people who I would have liked to also have around in future, but they died. In my first review of this series I compared it to “Lost” because I often felt lost and because of the ongoing revelations of a mystery. As I said, if I am really less lost I will have to find out but the mystery is stronger and more intriguing than ever. Also, people come and go. “Vanguard”, like “Lost”, is very much an ensemble story. There is no core personality or core group that defines the series as, for example, in NF. That has advantages and disadvantages.

As in “Lost”, I am more focused on the big picture, on the mystery, and much less on the individual characters. Although I already care for some of them, I don`t think there will ever be a danger that I will drop the series because one or more of them won`t survive.

I certainly established an emotional bond with Sarith and her crew of the Romulan ship “Bloodied Talon”. I kept wondering what future these people will have in the series and was looking forward to more. But towards the end, the ship was destroyed. That was one surprise of many in the book. For a brief moment I wondered, what was the point, but I quickly realized that the point was to show that the Romulans are around now and are getting involved which will make things more complicated and more interesting.

The last chapter was very insightful to me. I thought it was very important to explain in this context what the relationship between the Federation and Romulans actually looks like. Not being an expert and without having followed history of that time closely, it was interesting to be reminded that the Romulans withdrew for a long time and only now started to find out what happened in the meantime. I always thought that the Romulans kept being informed in spite of having left officially. That they know so little at that time, I didn`t expect that at all.

I haven`t read all comments about “Summon the Thunder” but here and there I read that people were wondering about the plot dealing with Quinn and Pennington as well as Ganz. Also that element has to be seen as part of the big picture and gives information that is important. Zett obviously didn`t think much of Quinn because the goons he hired were not very professional. The shootout reminded me of typical TV in which the bad guys are dreadful shots and sooner or later conveniently stick their heads out just enough to be eliminated by the good guys. On the other hand, of course the heroes leave this mess without being hit even once. It made me cringe but at the same time, I couldn`t help being amused.

But I think, first of all they underestimated Pennington. I was surprised to see that this reporter can fight so well and in general, seems to be very skilled at handling dangerous situations. I liked that a lot. That Zett tried to kill Quinn behind Ganz back is something that could become important in future. Not only am I wondering why Zett wants Quinn dead but also about the relationship between Ganz and his enforcer. Like the Romulans, I am sure Ganz will get more closely involved in the overall storyline. Having insights about these people early on will make future books just more complex and interesting.

I found the adventures of Pennington and Quinn a very entertaining read and am hoping for much more. I like this odd couple and their developing friendship. By the way, I am glad that at least Sniffy is safe. I just have a weakness for pets in Star Trek books.

Pennington is now definitely my favourite character of “Vanguard”. I enjoyed the chapter describing his conversation with Reyes very much and also his determination to get back on his feet and move on. That Pennington knows about Reyes and Desai but keeps it to himself made me smile but wasn`t really a surprise.

I am trying to warm up more to Reyes but I am not prepared to forgive what T`Prynn has done to Pennington as well as his attitude that he lets her do what she thinks is necessary and if he doesn`t know the details, it is better that way. It is better for his conscience and makes it easier to do his job. At least he is now questioning more in this book than in the first one when the end really justifies the means. He is also more willing to include a few more people into the informed circle, at least to a certain degree. I very much agree with the motivations for this change as described in this book and especially his relationship with Desai should become even more interesting.

Speaking of T`Prynn – I dislike that character immensely but want to add at the same time, she adds an important and sort of fascinating aspect to the series I don`t want to miss. I can`t even feel sorry for her because of her problems with her dead fiancé in her head. Also this book makes it very clear that T`Prynn is definitely not insane and very much responsible for her own actions. I don`t buy it that it was guilt that drove her to Pennington`s door. I keep wondering, will Pennington suffer an unfortunate accident engineered by her when he finds out more – and I am sure he will. Her being drawn to his door reminded me more of it that subconsciously T`Prynn still sees him as a threat, as unfinished business.

Her relationship with Sandesjo makes me wonder. I understand T`Prynn`s part of it: Of course her being a double agent is immensely useful for T`Prynn and her being a Klingon in disguise makes her a strong, passionate lover. But this is not real love, it is satisfying physical needs. I don`t think T`Prynn sees anything in this woman than a useful tool and I would be very surprised if T`Prynn doesn`t know exactly who she is dealing with. I am mainly wondering about Sandesjo. For her as a Klingon woman, a Vulcan lover must be entertaining but on page 383, it was said she was “assigned” to T`Prynn. I can`t imagine they told her to be a double agent. I admit, I am curious to find out more about what is going on here.

Also other characters that were introduced in the first book got some good scenes but nothing comes to mind right now I want to look at in greater detail. Before I turn to the mystery, I just want to say again how much I enjoy this colourful ensemble of characters.

Speaking of characters coming and going and surprises, the end of Palgrenax touched me a lot. I think the authors did an impressive job describing the situation on that planet and make the natives very likeable. To read how they were wiped out by the destruction of the planet definitely left an impact on me and I certainly didn`t expect that to happen.

That the Tholians and the builders of this ancient artefacts, the Shedai, are related was the biggest surprise to me. I am mainly wondering about what Sesrene said on page 301: “From long ago our people have avoided this place. It is believed the unspeakable occurred here. Of all places, this is where we are not to be.” “The unspeakable” – what is that? My uninformed guess is, it has to do with the discovered genetic engineering that Starfleet is determined to keep secret. I can imagine, Jetanien is determined to talk to Sesrene again and get more answers.

The authors were very skilled at showing the danger, the mystery, the threat the Shedai pose, even without knowing much about them and their legacy. “Lostzilla” (I love that description a Lost fan invented) very much reminded me of the creature in “Lost” and it was no less menacing and thrilling to read what it can do. Blowing up planets is of course even more menacing and thrilling but I also have to wonder, if this continues that planets with remnants of that ancient culture disappear, soon there won`t be much left to guard.

I am confident the next book will also be very interesting and I am looking forward to it – although it also means to be patient.

 

[JD]

I have to say that I pretty much agree with most of what you said. Pennington is also my favorite character, along with Quinn, and I am very curious to see what he does that gets the Pennington Insitute named after him.

Baerable, did you catch the hidden Lost reference? If I remember correctluy in one part it talks about how the code for the Zakdorn's briefcase needs to be enterened every 108 min.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Thanks for the comments, Mug and especially Baerbel.

Mug, sorry the story left you "cold." Despite your lack of familiarity with the series, it's our job to make you feel at home, and it looks like we fell at least somewhat short in that regard.

As for Baerbel, I know you're not particularly a fan of TOS-era stories, so I appreciate the sacrifice you made on our behalf

And for what it's worth, I don't think you "missed" anything.

 

[Sxottlan]

To further elaborate on my earlier comments in this thread:

Summon the Thunder is a book that, upon more and more reflection, doesn't seem to really add up to much, creating a greater sense of disappointment. I felt like I was constantly waiting for something to happen, even as all sorts of chaos was breaking out on planet after planet.

I can't exactly explain why that is. Let me ask you this: who is the main character in this book? Who is the book about? Damned if I know. No one is really focused on all that much. I suppose it could be Commander Khatami of the Endeavor as she appeared to get something of a charactar arc, but I kept waiting for the story to go back to the crew of Vanguard, whom I thought were the main characters of this series. Instead, Commodore Reyes barely makes an appearance in the first two-hundred pages of the novel and crops up only a few times towards the end.

In terms of pacing, the novel takes about eighty pages to really get going. Much of that first section is just recapping what happened in Harbinger and setting things up. It wasn't that much of a problem. It took me a few chapters to even realize it was happening. I was thinking, 'hey wait a minute! nothing has happened in the last ten pages except Reyes recapping the last book.'

Once that passed, things get rolling with yet another mission for Quinn from Ganz. The problem is, it's surprising how repetitive this has become in only the second book. I thought that most of their entire adventure in this book could have been cut and the novel would have been all the better for it. While the part with the Zakdorn could very well play into something in the future, considering we learned next to nothing about what he did and his fate, it felt pointless. The only part having anything to do with the main story was retrieving the sensor data and that was really the smallest part of their arc. Otherwise, I tried to read though their segments as quickly as possible because I just really didn't care. I had forgotten that Ganz had been listed as one of the main characters until recently when someone mentioned it. It is of course possible that there'll be some huge bombshell down the road to make us see him in an entirely different light, but in the here and now, he's coming across as a plot device and nothing more. I don't know if he's even gotten up off his arse from his big couch in two books.

The parts of Summon the Thunder that work the most are when we're pushing forward into the mystery of the Taurus Reach and any and all character work related to it. We get a better idea of what exactly these structures are and how pervasive they are on many worlds in the Reach. Although at times I worried we were getting too much info too fast, such as passages told from the Shedai's point of view or when the Tholian connection is discovered. I seriously hope this doesn't turn into yet another offshoot of a previously established species. I don't think it will be, but there's been far too much of that already.

Thinking about it, I'm wondering if the character who undertook the most risk was among the least seen, that being Reyes. It would have been interesting to have gotten more interplay between Reyes, T'Prynn and Jetenian as the Commodore decided to expand the circle of knowledge and what repercussions it will have for him. I was glad to see one of the secrets of the Vanguard station revealed, giving off a more sensible picture of the number of people involved with the meta-genome research. As for T'Prynn, here too is another character where I wonder how exactly her arc will unfold. She herself is fine, but if any scene told from her point of view is going to have her fighting her dead fiance's katra all the time, this could get pretty old by even Book 3.

As soon as I finished the book, I felt like I had finished any of those episodes where more was set-up than actually explored or resolved. The Romulan element added was something I could have completely done without. Call it Romulan fatigue. It's part of why I loved Harbinger so much to begin with: the focus was entirely on different species and with the Romulans generally out of the picture for much of TOS, I hoped we wouldn't see them at all.

I find myself more intrigued by the revelations about another star system (not visited in this book) than anything that happened here, and something tells me the Jinoteur system will be the focus of Reap the Whirlwind. So despite the mild mis-step, I'm looking forward to what comes next. I initially gave the book a positive rating, but now I'm back on the fence about it.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Certain aspects of STT were done deliberately to "open things up" from what was shown in Harbinger. Expanding the "mystery" of the Taurus Reach meant focusing on characters away from the station, hence the time spent with the Endeavour crew, the different planets, etc. Given that, station-bound characters like the Vanguard command staff weren't going to be as prominent as they were in the first book. That said, one of the goals for the story was to offer some attention to characters who didn't get as much "screen time" in the first book, such as Fisher and Jetanien, and how their roles factor into what's going on.

Obviously we had to strike a balance between answering too many questions too early and making some real progress, so our approach seems to plot out as being of the "two steps forward, one step back" variety that tends to drive some aspects of serialized fiction. It's a tough line to walk, and I admit freely that this was a challenging book for us to write.

As for the Romulans, their presence here was primarily to ground the Vanguard storyline within the larger framework of what's going on in the TOS era. There's been some discussion about a return appearance, but nothing definite has been laid down so far as I know. One of the things I love about this series is that while its main arc has a definite beginning and a somewhat definite end as to certain events, everything in between is subject to change depending on what comes up during the plotting of each new book, and that's by design. Indeed, some things have shifted simply because of certain things revealed in STT.

(No, I'm not saying what those are, or what effect they had. Just gonna hafta wait and see. )

Anyway, I don't think it's out of line at this point to say that the Jinoteur system will factor prominently in future Vanguard stories. To what extent remains to be seen.

As for what Dave plans for Reap the Whirlwhind...well...it's Dave. That alone should give you an inkling......

 

[ATimson]

It's a week old--I'm still replying anyways.

Dayton Ward said:
Further, the notion of the singularity drives seemed more than a bit advanced for the era, so -- for better or worse -- we went with something "conventional."

While it's probably too advanced for use in a bog-standard ship, there's at least two separate novels (admittedly, neither of which is part of the modern continuity) which feature a singularity drive in their prototype stage during the 2260s/2270s: Swordhunt (which may be reconcilable after the revisions in The Bloodwing Voyages) and The Badlands (which probably isn't; I have yet to explain the two names we have for Chakotay's ship, without introducing a third ).

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

JD said:

Baerable, did you catch the hidden Lost reference? If I remember correctluy in one part it talks about how the code for the Zakdorn's briefcase needs to be enterened every 108 min.

Not so long ago I got a catalogue addressed to "Bearable Haddrell". You didn`t quite write that, but "Baerable" made me smile, too.

I remember that someone mentioned this Lost reference. I must admit, I most probably would have overlooked it. I like it, by the way. I am definitely a Lost fan.

 

[Christopher]

Sxottlan said:
Let me ask you this: who is the main character in this book? Who is the book about? Damned if I know. No one is really focused on all that much. I suppose it could be Commander Khatami of the Endeavor as she appeared to get something of a charactar arc, but I kept waiting for the story to go back to the crew of Vanguard, whom I thought were the main characters of this series. Instead, Commodore Reyes barely makes an appearance in the first two-hundred pages of the novel and crops up only a few times towards the end.

That's the nature of an ensemble series. It isn't always focused around a single character or set of characters. Any member(s) of the ensemble can be the focus. There were a number of TNG episodes where Picard barely appeared and DS9 episodes where Sisko barely appeared. There have been DS9 Relaunch novels that didn't take place on the station or feature most of the "regular" cast at all. There have been SCE stories that didn't have Gold or Gomez in them. By the same token, there could be Titan novels ahead in which Riker and Troi play only a minor role -- you never know with an ensemble series.

 

[Dayton Ward]

ATimson said:
While it's probably too advanced for use in a bog-standard ship, there's at least two separate novels (admittedly, neither of which is part of the modern continuity) which feature a singularity drive in their prototype stage during the 2260s/2270s:

That makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, yeah...that's what we were thinkin' all along! That's the ticket....

On a related note (and for what it's worth), in our original draft of the epilogue, we had additional dialogue and such about the nature of the plasma weapon seen in "Balance of Terror" and its being a prototype, as part of the discussions regarding sending a ship out of the Neutral Zone to poke around. I even had the Romulan Commander from the episode in the scene at one point, essentially receiving his orders for this mission. Once I had it written I decided a lot of that was detracting from the purpose of the scene, and cut much of it during edits - some of it even before we turned in our first draft to Marco.

 

[JD]

Baerbel Haddrell said:

JD said:

Baerable, did you catch the hidden Lost reference? If I remember correctluy in one part it talks about how the code for the Zakdorn's briefcase needs to be enterened every 108 min.

Not so long ago I got a catalogue addressed to "Bearable Haddrell". You didn`t quite write that, but "Baerable" made me smile, too.

Sorry about that, Baerble.