Summer Glau Joins The Cape...

[KB24]

^He just wrapped Lego Star Wars, actually. But when my husband isn't playing video games, he's already stuck listening to Bean through all my random repeat viewings! I'm watching Patriot Games again right now. Well, it is on tv, after all, and I need something to watch before the hockey game tonight! ;0)

I know Firefly is popular, but I agree with STJ, which kind of brings me back to the original thread topic. I'm not that impressed with Summer Glau. Maybe she's popular in the fandom subset, but if she had the talent of connections to break out into bigger parts, she probably would have done so already. Yes there's nothing wrong with a steady career in solid if short lived series, but she's isn't going to be Angelina Jolie (for better or worse) anytime soon. Remember when she was a low budget movie actress who stood out and won an oscar? Now I just can't get past 'This is Angelina Jolie' in anything she does. Wanted is just Angelina Jolie, Beowulf is just a lizardy Angie. Oh hey, here's Summer Glau and Joel Gretsch again and again!

Obladi oblada!

 

[Christopher]

I know Firefly is popular, but I agree with STJ, which kind of brings me back to the original thread topic. I'm not that impressed with Summer Glau. Maybe she's popular in the fandom subset, but if she had the talent of connections to break out into bigger parts, she probably would have done so already.

She played a freaking Terminator. How is that not breaking out into a bigger part?

Yes there's nothing wrong with a steady career in solid if short lived series, but she's isn't going to be Angelina Jolie (for better or worse) anytime soon.

So the hell what? What kind of bizarro standard is that? You aren't impressed with any actress who isn't at Angelina Jolie's level? That's like 99.999% of actresses around. Why set the bar so insanely high? Who gives a damn whether or not she's Angelina Jolie? She's Summer Glau, and that means something to a lot of people, and it's damn well good enough.

 

[KB24]

I'm not setting the bar high, as I said I don't even like Angelina Jolie. But she is noticeable, a name everybody knows. I'm sorry but Summer Glau is not someone everybody knows. She hasn't broken out or jumped to movies and become more popular like for example Kristen Bell. I don't understand why you are getting uspet over everyone's discussion in this thread about the recurring use and/or misues of genre actors on tv today.

Bringing up a terminator as a character is an interesting example. The Terminator made Arnie huge, and he is increbile successful, now a billionaire politican in a desperate for energy state, ironically ;0). However, most folks will admit he isn't going to win any Oscars anytime soon, or still can't even speak English very well. By contrast, most people are unaware of Robert Patrick beyond T2 and X-Files. Kristanna Loken and Summer Glau may be genre babes, but they are relatively small potatoes to both Arnie and Patrick. And just think, one guy is huge and the other you could say technically a bust- yet they win out against the ladies. Is it a guy thing?

While still on TSCC, Lena Headey went from smallish parts in big films and some bad movies down to network TV and now Game of Thrones. (She's still on it right, that wasn't one of the roles recast?) Why in American do we consider movement between the mediums a step down-or the jump to movies a joke ala the David Crusoe syndrome?

I don't know why you seem to be taking this thread so personal? Thanks for damning me to hell for being bizarro and insane, C. I can get genre debate anywhere, but I only come here to be insulted. I'm curious why you respond at all if it's just with 'so the hell what and damn well good enough'. And you said I was being high and using too many generalities and mainstream thought. Now for shame you are doing it, too. ;0)

Go ahead and rant on my Bean avatar of the moment. It's okay, it doesn't bother me at all. Just don't talk bad about the Flyers!

 

[Aragorn]

Why in American do we consider movement between the mediums a step down-or the jump to movies a joke ala the David Crusoe syndrome?

While the quality of TV and movies can be considered to be pretty equal today and there is big money to be made on some TV shows (like actors who get $1 million per episode), going from movies to TV can still be considered a step down because you know Charlie Sheen, Kiefer Sutherland, Laurence Fishburne and Gary Sinise wouldn't be on network TV if they were still getting the kind of movie roles from their prime. And you'll never see actors making eight figures per movie starring in TV shows.

I guess there's still the whole "glamor" thing in regards to movies with premieres and seeing it on the big screen and whatnot, where TV actors get typecast pretty easily because people see them in their homes once a week playing the same character over and over again.

Regarding the likes of David Caruso and Shelly Long who leave a steady job on TV to pursue movies (and then ultimately come back to TV), what's funny is that they don't have an established movie career yet choose to leave hit shows to pursue it anyway. Katherine Heigl can (and did) leave Grey's Anatomy to continue her movie career. T.R. Knight, on the other hand, probably shouldn't have left.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I know Firefly is popular, but I agree with STJ, which kind of brings me back to the original thread topic. I'm not that impressed with Summer Glau. Maybe she's popular in the fandom subset, but if she had the talent of connections to break out into bigger parts, she probably would have done so already.

She played a freaking Terminator. How is that not breaking out into a bigger part?

Yes there's nothing wrong with a steady career in solid if short lived series, but she's isn't going to be Angelina Jolie (for better or worse) anytime soon.

So the hell what? What kind of bizarro standard is that? You aren't impressed with any actress who isn't at Angelina Jolie's level? That's like 99.999% of actresses around. Why set the bar so insanely high? Who gives a damn whether or not she's Angelina Jolie? She's Summer Glau, and that means something to a lot of people, and it's damn well good enough.

I've never seen Christopher use this kind of harsh language before.
You guys had better stop being mean about Summer Glau!

 

[Christopher]

I'm not setting the bar high, as I said I don't even like Angelina Jolie. But she is noticeable, a name everybody knows. I'm sorry but Summer Glau is not someone everybody knows. She hasn't broken out or jumped to movies and become more popular like for example Kristen Bell.

Again, WHO CARES????? Why is that even a meaningful standard? I just don't know what the hell it is you're trying to argue here. Who cares if "everyone" knows her? She's quite popular with genre audiences, and there's nothing wrong with that. Why you insist on talking about it as if it's some kind of failure, something you have to say "I'm sorry" for bringing up, is beyond me. It's like saying "I'm sorry, but the fact is she has brown hair." It's a meaningless thing to point out, yet you're harping on it incessantly for reasons that elude me. It's like you're making up random, nonsensical excuses to devalue her as an actress.

Bringing up a terminator as a character is an interesting example. The Terminator made Arnie huge, and he is increbile successful, now a billionaire politican in a desperate for energy state, ironically ;0). However, most folks will admit he isn't going to win any Oscars anytime soon, or still can't even speak English very well. By contrast, most people are unaware of Robert Patrick beyond T2 and X-Files. Kristanna Loken and Summer Glau may be genre babes, but they are relatively small potatoes to both Arnie and Patrick. And just think, one guy is huge and the other you could say technically a bust- yet they win out against the ladies. Is it a guy thing?

You have this strange obsession with how famous or how "big" an actor is. That's a shallow and petty standard. Acting is a profession. It's not about fame. It's about doing a job. It's about being creative. If you can make a steady living, if you can challenge and stretch yourself creatively, if you have a loyal fanbase of any size that validates and responds to your work, that's a success by any rational standard.

I don't know why you seem to be taking this thread so personal?

Because I resent unfairness toward others. It feels like you're looking for excuses to dismiss Summer Glau's worth, and I find that petty and mean-spirited.

 

[Forbin]

The Terminator made Arnie huge...

No, that would be anabolic steroids.

 

[KB24]

^ Boy, now I'm meaningless, random and nonsensical, shallow, unfair, and petty, eh? I don't know why you are repeatedly responding to my comments with such wit as 'Who cares?' I've tried to repeatedly state my initial comments again, with branch out discussion, analysis, debate, and devil's advocates-but you'd rather just tell me I'm wrong. Fine then, I'll just say my initial comment again. Summer Glau doesn't impress me, and her appearing on The Cape is not making me jump for joy over this show. In that end, maybe that is the judge of if she's popular or not, because obviously, she's not appealing to everybody.

Acting may be a profession, I'd like to think it is still an art. But unfortunately today in Hollywood is about fame. That is exactly why Angelina Jolie would get a part over Summer Glau. Not because of who deserved to get the part. We are a celebrity obsessed society, I didn't make it that way. I obviously like obscure Brit actors. Saying acting is about the work is like saying writing a book is about the accomplishment. If that were true, we'd all be JK Rowling, and obviously we aren't.

You have no idea whether I am unfair or not. This board isn't a reflection of our lifestyle, it's a topic of reflection and debate. For me to say the luck of the Hollywood draw is askew does not make me a cruel person. Has life treatly you unfairly? I asked you that question so that makes me mean-spirited. Okkkaaaayyyy.

None of the other posters have had a problem with what I've said. Aragorn just agreed that glamour is part of the issue in the split desicion of Hollywood, yet you haven't cited and insulted that post. I shan't return to this thread now. If you want to be high and mighty and not honestly conjure, that's you're problem, not mine.

And yes, forbin, you are correct! ;0)

 

[Christopher]

In that end, maybe that is the judge of if she's popular or not, because obviously, she's not appealing to everybody.

That's illogical. No matter how popular someone is, they're not going to appeal to everyone. I'm not saying you have to like her. I'm saying it's petty to claim that just because you personally don't like her, she must not actually "count" as a success. And I'm saying that the rationales you're using to dismiss her worth are invalid and arbitrary.

Acting may be a profession, I'd like to think it is still an art. But unfortunately today in Hollywood is about fame. That is exactly why Angelina Jolie would get a part over Summer Glau. Not because of who deserved to get the part.

Angelina Jolie is a movie actor, Summer Glau a television actor. It's apples and oranges. And it's antiquated thinking to argue that television acting is somehow less worthwhile than movie acting, that you haven't really "arrived" until you're a movie star. Television is a much more prestigious medium these days than it used to be, and it's generally smarter than movies because it's more of a writers' medium. I'd also submit that it's more of an actors' medium as well, because an actor can have much more opportunity to develop a character and demonstrate one's range, as well as simply to do a greater amount of performing.

And within genre television, Summer Glau is one of the hottest talents around, as evidenced by the fact that she keeps getting work and her prominence keeps rising. You insist on trying to define this by the standards of general movie-star fame, who gets in the tabloids or covered on Entertainment Tonight or whatever, but that's just not a relevant or useful standard, since we're talking about the specific niche of genre television. Lots of people have become icons within SF fandom without ever becoming widely known to the general public. You're just applying too narrow a set of standards.

We are a celebrity obsessed society, I didn't make it that way. I obviously like obscure Brit actors. Saying acting is about the work is like saying writing a book is about the accomplishment. If that were true, we'd all be JK Rowling, and obviously we aren't.

What??? Of course we aren't all Rowling, but my point is that that doesn't matter. Not everyone has to be equally famous to be successful by some standard. Your mistake is insisting there can be only one standard for success, and that's just bull. Me, I'll never be anywhere near as famous as Rowling, and I don't bloody well want to be. But within my particular niche, Star Trek tie-in fiction, I'm at the top of my field, and by the standards of that field I'm quite successful, even if I'm barely a blip on the radar by some other standards. It's all relative. And yes, I am hoping I'll eventually make a name for myself writing original science fiction, but I never expect to be as big as Asimov or Benford or Banks, and I don't need to be in order to consider myself successful. You don't have to be at the absolute top in order to be considered a success, because there are plenty of different degrees of success.

And even in the unlikely event that my original SF became an Asimov-level success and won me the Hugo and Nebula and Saturn and so forth, even if every SF reader around knew my name, I'd still be obscure to the public at large, but I wouldn't care. The world is too big for everyone to care about the same things. Universal fame is so rare that it's an impractical goal to aim for. If you're successful within your own niche, within the specific finite audience you're targeting, then you're successful even if you're never considered important enough to have paparazzi following you around. In fact, I'd say you're better off without paparazzi following you around.

 

[Jetfire]

The only thing that works on FOX at this point is cartoons and reality based contest shows...if T-TSCC was on The CW or SyFy(Forgot that was a network) it would be on right now. FOX sucks...in many ways worse than The CW...glad Summer Glau is on NBC...but NBC is horrible with these type of shows...the big 3 ABC, CBS & NBC cannot do genre shows...FOX is retarded and what we have is barely legal/barely a network CW & cable.

 

[KB24]

Oh excuse me, I am totally wrong because I am not writing Star Trek books. I humbly apologize.

I stated my original comments numerous time in this thread in response to the original poster and other friendly discussion about the supposed 'apples and oranges' of genre casts, film, and television. I didn't come here to discuss who is the bigger fish in this little pond. What's the point of that? It's no good to stay in one's little finite niche. We are meant to question, grow, expand, and evolve.

And I am evolving to not return to this thread. You're not even willing to discuss small potatoes without accusing me of something. Why the hell bother?

 

[Christopher]

Oh excuse me, I am totally wrong because I am not writing Star Trek books. I humbly apologize.

What? That's just an example. My point is that you don't have to be world-famous to qualify as successful within the particular niche you belong to.

I didn't come here to discuss who is the bigger fish in this little pond. What's the point of that?

From where I'm sitting, it sounds like that's the only thing you are discussing. You keep insisting that Summer Glau isn't worthy of being considered a success because she's not as successful as Angelina Jolie or whatever. And "What's the point of that?" is exactly what I've been asking in utter bewilderment all week.

It's no good to stay in one's little finite niche. We are meant to question, grow, expand, and evolve.

Of course we are. But the point is, just because someone isn't Angelina Jolie-level famous, that doesn't mean they haven't grown and expanded within their own careers. It's a big planet. There are seven billion of us now, and we're broken down into all sorts of subsets. It's possible to be famous and successful without being world-famous. There is more than one tier of success, and that's what you refuse to recognize. For a movie star, having a million viewers is a disastrous failure, but for a novelist, having a hundred thousand readers is a massive success. These things are relative.

I've already demonstrated that your claim that Summer Glau has had no career growth is utter bull. She's obviously on the upswing, as her continued employment and steadily increasing billing demonstrate. So it's just plain dishonest for you to claim she's not growing or evolving in her career. You're just setting an impossibly, irrationally high standard for success and treating everything below it as utter failure or stagnation. And that's just bizarre.

 

[KB24]

^You are entitled to you points, but all you've done is insult mine because I don't like Summer Glau and have some sort of fanboy crush on her. She wasn't a star on Firefly-which for better or worse was cancelled. She was only a reccuring player on The 4400, also cancelled too soon. TSCCC barely made two seasons. To some executives casting these shows, she may be a pop genre babe, but he track record doesn't seem on the upswing when you've been on so many cancelled shows.

You never answered my proposed questions about if it is a she's just hot thing, nor if its the connections one may have in Hollywood-like Gretsch and his nee Shatner wife. Others have responded to my discussion in this very thread without flaming me, and now you're back peddling by just casually saying my thoughts are bull.

So sit on your high horse all you want. I have nothing else to say in this thread. I actually have no interest in Glau or The Cape, and had my discussion of these merits with others. I suspect the final analysis will be how big her part is in The Cape and how long the program lasts. I don't expect it will last any longer than Birds of Prey, and like we begain the thread by saying- if there's already a show in recent memory called The Cape, maybe they should change the name.

Sigh. I think some people just spend too much time of this board.

ETA: The Cape is now a mid season replacement, and I'm not the only one who can admit her cancellation streak.

'Why do her Shows Keep getting Cancelled?'
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132359/board/flat/138632511

Well golly gee shucks, merit and discussion, how about that?

 

[Nardpuncher]

^You are entitled to you points, but all you've done is insult mine because I don't like Summer Glau and have some sort of fanboy crush on her. She wasn't a star on Firefly-which for better or worse was cancelled. She was only a reccuring player on The 4400, also cancelled too soon. TSCCC barely made two seasons. To some executives casting these shows, she may be a pop genre babe, but he track record doesn't seem on the upswing when you've been on so many cancelled shows.

You never answered my proposed questions about if it is a she's just hot thing, nor if its the connections one may have in Hollywood-like Gretsch and his nee Shatner wife. Others have responded to my discussion in this very thread without flaming me, and now you're back peddling by just casually saying my thoughts are bull.

So sit on your high horse all you want. I have nothing else to say in this thread. I actually have no interest in Glau or The Cape, and had my discussion of these merits with others. I suspect the final analysis will be how big her part is in The Cape and how long the program lasts. I don't expect it will last any longer than Birds of Prey, and like we begain the thread by saying- if there's already a show in recent memory called The Cape, maybe they should change the name.

Sigh. I think some people just spend too much time of this board.

ETA: The Cape is now a mid season replacement, and I'm not the only one who can admit her cancellation streak.

'Why do her Shows Keep getting Cancelled?'
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132359/board/flat/138632511

Well golly gee shucks, merit and discussion, how about that?

Just to let you know if you're new, KB24, is that it's not you. It's him.
Christopher tends to disect people's posts to a very great degree and comes off as rude to many people.
I've decided many times to come in and 'defend' people who ( or is it whom?) he does this to, but I usually get called a jerk in the end.

 

[Dude]

Not to interupt what is a serious and dynamic discussion, but I have a very important question:

How exactly did this thread manage to go seven pages with not a single picture?

 

[Aragorn]

Happy now?

 

[KB24]

Hi Nard. I'm not new here at all. 5 years I think? I guess I'm more selective in when and where I post. I was enjoying the LOTR trilogy debate in another thread, too. I don't usually care about mean people or the names here on a board, just the discussion. Everyone has something to say, no matter how big they think they are or how small they try and make you.

Hi DJ. I noticed this awhile back and I was very surprised too that someone didn't interjet with a hot photo- especially when C turned my comments into a Jolie vs Glau war. After all, hotness does go a long way. On the imdb I saw someone comment that Glau looked like Michael Jackson! I thought, geez, you def have to present photo evidence if you think that!

ETA: Thanks Aragorn. I think we posted at the same time. Maybe MJ was having all the surgery to look like her? ;0)

 

[Christopher]

^You are entitled to you points, but all you've done is insult mine because I don't like Summer Glau and have some sort of fanboy crush on her.

You don't have to have a fanboy crush on her. Just stop using such irrational and counterfactual arguments for asserting that your dislike is somehow objectively justified.

She wasn't a star on Firefly-which for better or worse was cancelled. She was only a reccuring player on The 4400, also cancelled too soon. TSCCC barely made two seasons. To some executives casting these shows, she may be a pop genre babe, but he track record doesn't seem on the upswing when you've been on so many cancelled shows.

Didn't I address that particular point near the start of the thread? Most shows get cancelled young, all shows get cancelled eventually, so it's nonsense to claim that someone who's been in a couple of short-lived shows is somehow a failure as a performer. It's premature to write off someone's career when they're still at such an early stage of it. Now, I'm not saying she's a proven success or that her popularity will continue to grow; I'm just saying there are no legitimate grounds for designating her a failure at this point. And your insistence on doing so is clearly motivated more by your personal antipathy than by any objective evidence.

If you'd just said "I don't like her" and left it at that, if you hadn't tried to "prove" it with such illogical and false arguments, I would've had no objection. You're entitled to your opinions, if you're honest enough to present them as personal opinions. But if you distort facts and reason to try to justify them, expect to be called out on those distortions.

You never answered my proposed questions about if it is a she's just hot thing

Well, I don't think it's necessary to convince you of anything, any more than you needed to convince me of your position. It should be enough to recognize that individual tastes differ and not try to pretend they're anything more than individual tastes. However, for the sake of argument (as if we didn't have enough argument already), I don't think it's fair to say that Glau's popularity is only due to hotness. In fact, I liked her before I started to find her hot. I didn't find her all that striking in Firefly/Serenity, because she tended to be scraggly-haired and rarely smiled. But I found her an effective and engaging performer, very good at what she was called on to do, and in Serenity I was utterly stunned by her masterful physical performance, the way she used her skills as a dancer to master the intricate fight choreography, which Whedon wisely staged in continuous takes with minimal intercutting so we could appreciate the full effect. Subsequently, getting to see her more "cleaned up" and smiling more, I've come to recognize that she is quite lovely, but that's in addition to the appreciation for her talent that I already had. And that appreciation of her talent and range has only increased as I've seen her tackle a variety of distinct characters. So her physical beauty is something I've come to admire, but it's the least of the reasons why I think highly of her as an actress.

ETA: The Cape is now a mid season replacement, and I'm not the only one who can admit her cancellation streak.

'Why do her Shows Keep getting Cancelled?'
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132359/board/flat/138632511

Well golly gee shucks, merit and discussion, how about that?

Just because more than one person has a false belief, that doesn't make it true. It's not that her shows get cancelled any more often than anyone else's; it's that she gets more notice than other actors whose shows get cancelled just as much. It's the Bermuda Triangle fallacy. The rate of disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle is no greater than the rate of disappearances over any other equally well-travelled body of water; but the disappearances that happen there get more attention because of the region's infamy.

So, ironically, the fact that some people think there's something special about her record of show cancellations is proof of her success, not her failure. It proves that she stands out of the crowd in people's attention and awareness, that people are analyzing and dissecting her record far more than the records of the countless other actors whose careers are at a similar level.

 

[KB24]

Oh my goodness Christopher let it go. I'm not making threats against you or the woman. I said my piece on her, genre tv, the industry as a whole, and more. Other posters responded with agreement and disagreement, we moved on. I didn't set out to personally attack you, her, or anyone else, so you should not do so to me. Simply put, end of story. Let it go.

 

[Aragorn]

So no one cares for David Lyons as the lead in The Cape?