I was thinking about our debate the other day when I saw Jeff Koper on Highway to Heaven. Here's a guy who's never done anything spectacular, but has never been out of work. His face and voice are always instantly recognizable, even if he's in makeup or you don't remember his name. I don't mean to be arbitrary, I'm just saying success is relative. I don't intent to watch this new Cape, and saying Summer Glau is attached to it is not the big selling point for me. Yes Hollywood is decieving like that. You can be labeled and stuck in the seemingly same spot for thirty years and still have an incredibly successful and statisying career. Hello, my avatar is Sean Bean, and I don't suppose most Americans think he made anything but Goldeneye, Patriot Games, and Lord of the Rings. I don't like the mainstream media at all. I was trying to be sardonic or advocate in my last post, maybe I'm not explaining my thoughts clearly. I just don't like how the mainstream makes the bandwagon that can ruin the geek icon. Like when you could like Christian Bale before he was 'omg like Christian Bale squeeeeee!!!!!'. When does it not become 'geekdom'? As the saying goes, you were a nerd if you played D&D, but everybody can like LOTR.
I just don't get why you're even talking about the "mainstream media" here. Summer Glau's popularity is a fan-driven phenomenon. She's a geek idol, and she's earned that status. And people casting genre shows recognize that. In fact, most genre shows these days are kind of incestuous about casting, constantly snatching up actors popular from previous genre work for regular or guest roles. Like Stargate SG-1 getting both Ben Browder and Claudia Black as well as Morena Baccarin, Smallville getting James Marsters, Alessandro Juliani, and Sam Witwer, Dollhouse getting Tahmoh Penikett as well as assorted Whedon vets, V getting Baccarin, Laura Vandervoort, Elizabeth Mitchell, and others, both Flashforward and Eureka getting James Callis, etc. Look, if you're not personally impressed by Summer Glau or by The Cape, fine, that's your opinion. Just don't pretend that everyone who disagrees with your opinion is the victim of some media conspiracy or that there's something fundamentally wrong with the fact that she's popular. Opinions can differ without any of them being objectively wrong.
I wasn't implying a different opinion from mine is wrong. I was asking if the difference between mainsteam and genre is important. I suppose it's not then. Unfortunately there is a distinction. No need to get upset. I thought we were having a good debate. I think its a shame good people remain obscure because they don't get a mainstream bandwagon. Look at genre books. It's the same way. Only a few ever really break out, and when one does, it's not usually a postive crossover appeal. Somehow I feel folks sell their soul to break out when I think there's nothing wrong with genre. I wish a network would do something like Dark Shadows used to do-keep the same cast and rotate them with the storylines. I think it would be neat if we had an all star genre cast that worked on 13 ep miniseries based on genre literature each quarter, then rotating onto a new one. I think this is where NBC went wrong with Journeyman and Crusoe. Journeyman could have been a continuing 13 ep storyline each year, and they dropped it too damn quick. Likewise Crusoe killed any attemped for classic literature to be filmed on networks for a long time. You're right in that the mainstream is the brainwasher, because they take ratings and advertising and money over a series' merit and a cast's talent. Has genre made a dent in this? On cable and the smaller networks I think so. But look at the way ABC is treating the new V. Joel Gretsh is another one who makes some fine series, but isn't considered a star. Unjust!
ABC renewed V, while cancelling FlashForward. They're treating V much better than it deserves, because it's one of the worst primetime dramas in recent memory. And Joel Gretsch is just about as dull as everyone else in its very poorly-chosen cast. Morena Baccarin is the only one there who really rises above the rest.
^Funny, for me, Joel Gretsch was the only GOOD thing about V, and still didn't manage to keep me watching the show. I confess, though, I love him for his appearances in Taken (the Spielberg miniseries) and The 4400, and less for what he was doing in V. Morena, bless her, I love her, but she is so dull on V that it's just painful.
Interesting how differently people can perceive things. I found Baccarin to be the weak link in the stellar Firefly/Serenity cast, and not much more impressive on Stargate, but on V she's really raised her game. It's a very subtle and reserved performance, and the writing is crap, but she's really been superb at conveying Anna's mix of placid allure in public and cool, manipulative menace behind the facade, bringing a sense of great dignity and reserved power to the role. Her "Bliss" speech at the end of episode four was a far better piece of vocal performance than I'd ever heard from her before (no doubt thanks in part to her years working with top voice director Andrea Romano on Justice League Unlimited). And her scream of anguish at the end of the season finale was breathtaking. I thought maybe she was better at a more reserved performance and fell short when called on to do anything really intense, but she proved me wrong in spades there. In short, V has had extremely few impressive moments, and all the ones it's had have been Baccarin scenes.
I think you're probably right about most Americans, but I, for one, really wish he'd get more juicy roles (especially as good guys). His brief contribution to Equilibrium was one of the high points of the movie. It's a shame that some serious talents just go unrecognized. Very interesting, indeed. I, personally, don't think there is a weak link in the Firefly cast. And while I do think she's doing a great job on V, I don't perceive it to be any better than her performances on Firefly (although the element of villainy does often make a performance more interesting). It's a shame Alan Tudyk's character couldn't have been a regular.
I think it has to do with the fact that for me -- more than for a lot of people, apparently -- the voice is a very important part of a performance. Maybe because I've always been such an animation buff, or because I was practically weaned on Star Trek with its vocally expressive, theatrically trained performers. If an actor's vocal delivery isn't rich or expressive, I'm generally not that engaged by them overall. And it was Baccarin's vocal performance that disappointed me in FF and SG1. But her use of her voice on V has been far more impressive, especially in the episode 4 "Bliss" speech, where her voice really commanded my attention.
I'm a big voice man myself (that might be why I hate Scarlett Johannsen), so I understand where you're coming from, but I'm gonna have to disagree about Baccarin. Have you ever listened to the commentary for "Shindig" (with Morena and writer Jane Espenson)? Her normal conversational voice is a lot different from the silky, cultured affectation she had as Inara. Of course, I also recognize that it's all subjective, so it may just be a matter of taste.
Well, keep in mind that when I say Baccarin was the weak link in the FF/S cast, we're talking about one of the best casts ever assembled for television. So it's praising with faint damnation. She was good, she just wasn't quite as outstanding as the rest. But now, on V, she's the one and only standout in one of the weakest television casts I've seen in ages.
I haven't watched this new V-I'm still too attached to the original. I just don't understand why ABC renews and promotes, but puts the show on long hiatus after only showing a handful of eps. Even if it was good, how can folks find it? I miss The 4400! Hi Batman! If you follow Bean, you can find his good stuff. I'm looking forward to his new movie Black Death. I agree vocal performance is important, which is probably why I like more British actors than American ones! I miss some of the old classic leading men!
I gotta say, one thing that turned me off about V was the way Morena is made to look... odd, somehow. Yeah, I know, she'd the head baddy, and I'm sure it serves the plot & mood to make her that way. But the way they make her up and photograph her is a bit unnerving. After taking my breath away as Inara, I don't want to see her looking scary.
It wasn't something they planned on. They intended the show to run in the fall, and heavily promoted it for a fall premiere, but then discovered they had a lemon. They weren't happy with the first couple of episodes and the subsequent scripts, so they shut down production to give the producers a chance to do some rethinking and retooling. Then they weren't happy with the rethought, retooled stuff, so they shut down production again and did some retooling of the staff itself. And so on. And those cumulative delays made it impossible to get a whole season ready in time for a fall premiere, but they'd already hyped that premiere too heavily (because of their eagerness to find and nurture a replacement for Lost) to get away with postponing the whole thing until midseason. So they were stuck with having to run what they had in the fall and delay the rest until midseason, and then advertise this unsatisfactory approach as if they'd planned it all along. But it didn't ultimately hurt the show that much, surprisingly, since it got renewed for a second season. Though I gather that has more to do with its relatively low budget (it has a smaller, cheaper cast than FlashForward) and a ratings bump from its lead-in than it does with the show's own popularity. I suspect they renewed it largely so that they'd have something genre-ish on their schedule in the wake of Lost, good or not. EDIT: I just realized that maybe you're talking about the long hiatus between the end of the first season and the start of the second. I think that's more of the same -- they're going to take the time to retool it even more, try to fix it. Which I'm not optimistic about, given that it got even worse after their first retool. Network micromanagement rarely improves a show, even one that was so incoherent and visionless to begin with.
That's something I have no trouble agreeing with. So basically, you're kinda saying she was "the worst of the best?" Speaking of vocal, I was really pleased when I discovered Sean Bean was one of the focal characters (if you do the main story) of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Even though his character model is butt-ugly. Black Death looks interesting. Seems to be playing a hero again, which is always cool. Although, I'm reminded of all the jokes in The Invention of Lying about how you can't make the Black Plague interesting. We shall see.
Yes Batman! My husband is conflicted about getting Elder Scrolls because he doesn't want to listen to Bean! Black Death is doing well oversees, lots of premieres and positive reviews, but looks like only a DVD here. Go fig. Shouldn't they have worked out all the kinks of the new V before they put it on the air? Hell of a way to go about a show. And for thsoe who don't like Joel Gretsh, I have to ask. Do you think he gets parts because he's with William Shatner's daughter?
Summer Glau has never given any indication of abundant talent. River wasn't a real character, just mad libs and cool poses. And she reprised for The 4400. Then she played a robot, like a robot, and if the role and its execution got more demanding, I couldn't hang around until it did. So, her joining The Cape is not a good sign for quality. As to all the folderol on other actors, Morena Baccarin was unimpressive on Firefly. But, contra popular opinion, Firefly mainly had decent oneliner jokes. Beyond that, the show wasn't very well written. Inara in particular was undeveloped or downright silly. Space whore? Please. Baccarin was much better in a real role, as Adria, even if it's popular to denigrate SG1. It's no surprise she could reprise Adria. Anna stands out so vividly because V is such a bad show. Elizabeth Mitchell has always been competent, from Santa movies to ER, but her Erica is not very good because the role is not very good, being as V is crap. Joel Gretsch, being male, survives the V curse a little better, but you keep expecting Jack to bang Erica because the collar is just a disguise, right?
Whyever not? Anyway, if he wants to avoid that, just tell him to not play the main story stuff. There's about a billion other things to do besides that, and I know a lot of people who are huge fans of the game and never even think of bothering with the main story.