Didn't Sulu have a single bed on the Excelsior?
No romance there then.
The plot thickens.
No romance there then.
The plot thickens.
Sulu -- the forgotten lover and racism of the times?
- Thread starter Gassy Man
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It wasn't much more than 20 years after World War II. Wasn't the show taking a significant enough step by making one of the heroes Japanese?
Somewhere, though, I've heard or read that it was planned for each of the male regulars to have a love interest at some point just to make clear that they were all "healthy heterosexuals." Mildly interesting in that context if Sulu's turn was taken away and given to Scotty.
Somewhere, though, I've heard or read that it was planned for each of the male regulars to have a love interest at some point just to make clear that they were all "healthy heterosexuals." Mildly interesting in that context if Sulu's turn was taken away and given to Scotty.
+1. That sums up my feelings on this thread.
You notice that most of the Comms in Omega Glory were Asian. With Korea, Vietnam and communist China, the typical dumb hick viewer sort of lumped all Asians together. Maybe that had a little bit to do with it, and I mean a very very little.
Nah... no way.
Anyway, Sulu took the Captain's chair at least twice which fully blows the racism card out the airlock in Star Trek. In the great scheme of things, taking command of a Star ship fully outweighs having a girl on your arm.
Nah... no way.
Anyway, Sulu took the Captain's chair at least twice which fully blows the racism card out the airlock in Star Trek. In the great scheme of things, taking command of a Star ship fully outweighs having a girl on your arm.
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I wonder, also, if the producers of TOS (even way back in the 1960s) knew that Takei is gay, and so they wouldn't want to "waste" a heterosexual love interest on an actor they "knew" (or assumed) wouldn't want it.
After all, Takei's sexuality was an open secret among Star Trek fandom even long before he came out publicly, and rumor says that Takei's co-actors and the show's producers were certainly aware of it even during the show's production. It's certainly possible the producers were guilty of somehow confusing the actor with the character he played, and didn't want to give him more romance than the couple of Uhura-flirts he got.
After all, Takei's sexuality was an open secret among Star Trek fandom even long before he came out publicly, and rumor says that Takei's co-actors and the show's producers were certainly aware of it even during the show's production. It's certainly possible the producers were guilty of somehow confusing the actor with the character he played, and didn't want to give him more romance than the couple of Uhura-flirts he got.
Well, acting is pretending. Isn't it?
The series ran for thre years and 78 episodes. There was plenty of time to do an episode with romance with Sulu -- as I wrote before, they did it with Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, and Chekhov.
Clearly this was just an attempt by Paramount 20 years later to cover their obvious racism with Sulu's character. Then still clearly not wanting to have an Asian character have any romance they just throw in a daughter and we're expected to fall for it.
Perhaps the reason we didn't see Sulu in romances is that he was filming Green Berets for a considerable time and some of his juicier parts were given to Chekov.
That's a good question, but a better question is why must there be romance for all of the other male major characters and not Sulu.
Actually, you missed the point by a mile and came up with a bizarre thesis that somehow racism against African Americans is correlated directly to that against Asian Americans. Do you even know anything about racism? Do you know anything about racism against Asian Americans? Beyond the offensiveness of the concept of lumping minorities together, the statement is just historically inaccurate.So . . . because African Americans were making strides, Asian Americans somehow were coming out ahead? What?
Missing the clear as day point. You are charging racism, but aim that finger at a group--in a period where you have failed to demonstrate it to be a hard line fact, otherwise that would have been a (necessary) part of your opening post. Not only have you failed to demonstrate how the key players (NBC, Roddenberry or Desilu) practiced racism in regard to a Sulu romance, but the reason for a Sulu shift to Scott was stated as performance related. As a minority, I'm sorry, but in that decade, if anyone would have been the recipient of such treatment, it would not be an Asian American actor before the group in the center of racial firestorm in social/political life of that time. That was the one and only racial focus of the era on the national level--which was not lost on TV networks. That ground was broken on that front was a miracle.
Unlike A long pattern of perception where African Americans were concerned, Asian American actors showing any hint of sexuality was not the taboo / perceived threat on U.S. TV as it was for the other group. While one can argue an Asian American actor could have been overlooked, that is not in the same virulent category as racism, where the very thought of a particular group's sexuality was considered threatening.
Where is your real life racial roadblock--of that decade-which prevented Sulu's romance? Why are you not referring to the smoking NBC and/or Desilu and/or Roddenberry smoking gun?
Even in Takei's lost chance, again, there is a rational motive for shifting the character from Sulu to Scotty--no racism, yet you argue that he (Takei) was the victim of such treatment.
Where is the evidence?
..and she was white--which was major on US television, no matter how short the scene. Can anyone recall similar, positive scene on 1960s TV for an African American actor--and was not a "message" / drama scene or episode on race?
Take a look at these three articles to start to see what Asian American male actors have gone through:
http://jezebel.com/5992922/why-arent...s-in-hollywood
http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion...ektingxml.html
http://newamericamedia.org/2014/01/t...races-them.php
If you still want to be in denial or ignorance, that's your choice. But, please, think twice about speaking about issues you clearly know nothing about.
I just asked the question. But why is it so threatening to consider the possibility? It's so funny that Star Trek is held up as a paean to diversity, and yet so many fans seem ardently opposed to the reality of bigotry that people actually face. They really do live in the fantasy world of the series.
But Sulu wasn't originally written to be Japanese, or at least that what Roddenberry at one time claimed. He chose the name Sulu to, in his mind, represent many Asian ethnic groups.
But racism is multifaceted. Just because he took the captain's chair twice doesn't automatically mean people aren't racist. If they decide that is acceptable but it's not acceptable to show him in a romantic way, that is racist -- doing something negative or putting limitations on him simply because of his race is by definition racism.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
For a split-second, I thought that subtitle read "SULU GOES HOME TO LEARN THE MEANING OF HONDA."
Block fonts, yay.
Or Paramount wanted to sidetrack trekkie assumptions that Sulu (like the actor who played him) was gay.
Chekov "got the girl" in Eden and Gamesters, was Takei doing Green Berets during both episodes production?
Or maybe no one consciously thought "let's exclude Sulu", but neither did they think of him as a romantic lead type. People do engage in unconscious stereotyping, after all.
Or, more likely, maybe it was just the luck of the draw. Sulu's one intended romance for "This Side of Paradise" was given to Spocko (a better choice dramatically), George disappeared for a big chunk of season 2, and then Chekov came along and further diluted screentime for the minor players.
Or, more likely, maybe it was just the luck of the draw. Sulu's one intended romance for "This Side of Paradise" was given to Spocko (a better choice dramatically), George disappeared for a big chunk of season 2, and then Chekov came along and further diluted screentime for the minor players.
I'm currently watching "To Be Takei", his biography film. He does mention bringing up homosexuality to Gene Roddenberry at some point (PROBABLY during the series), but Gene replied that while they may address it in the sci-fi abstract way at some point, he doubted they'll ever see two men walking down the hallways of the Enterprise holding hands (sic). Prophetic enough, it still hasn't happened.
In any case, I also agree that it's not a race-based decision. TOS was NOT an ensemble show, despite what George or Nichelle or whoever has said over the years. It had two, then three primary stars, plus Scotty, then several additional regulars. While I agree that the show was groundbreaking in many ways, it wasn't a romance-based show beyond getting the leads some booty time (and even that wasn't as often as remembered by many), nor should it have been considered as such.
I was much more happy in the early 80s seeing a guy who looked like me in the command seat of an awesome starship, with occasional bouts of fencing or shooting pistols at stuff or growing weird muppet plants. I didn't give a flip that he wasn't getting any girls. Out in the real world, people who looked like me WERE getting girls - but were rarely ever seen as astronauts, fighter pilots, politicians, etc. That's what Star Trek was for. And from helmsman to skipper of his own ship, George Takei helped Sulu make that time of my life awesome.
Mark
In any case, I also agree that it's not a race-based decision. TOS was NOT an ensemble show, despite what George or Nichelle or whoever has said over the years. It had two, then three primary stars, plus Scotty, then several additional regulars. While I agree that the show was groundbreaking in many ways, it wasn't a romance-based show beyond getting the leads some booty time (and even that wasn't as often as remembered by many), nor should it have been considered as such.
I was much more happy in the early 80s seeing a guy who looked like me in the command seat of an awesome starship, with occasional bouts of fencing or shooting pistols at stuff or growing weird muppet plants. I didn't give a flip that he wasn't getting any girls. Out in the real world, people who looked like me WERE getting girls - but were rarely ever seen as astronauts, fighter pilots, politicians, etc. That's what Star Trek was for. And from helmsman to skipper of his own ship, George Takei helped Sulu make that time of my life awesome.
Mark
It i called historical context, which should prevent hollow charges of systemic racism on 1960s American TV regarding Asian Americans--particularly when you are so liberal with charges, but conveniently light on facts related to the responsible TOS parties. To ignore the larger picture of race in American society/politics means you would never understand how race was handled in the media....
..which the post above appears to hammer the case.
You would do well to actually study race in relation to American history / media in the 1960s, instead of a poorly constructed, historically suspect grievance charge against parties you repeatedly failed to tie to said grievance.
Several pages in, and you--in no surprise--have failed to hang your fantasy racism on NBC, Desilu or Roddenberry--the central players in how TOS' characters were produced and handled in its production years.
...otherwise, that would have been part of your OP, instead of unwarranted accusations.
Try again, son.
No, according to Gassy, some nefarious plot was carried out to deprive Sulu of romance. Too bad there's not a particle of evidence to support the charge.
As a long-time Asian-American guy, I've seen many examples of how Asian men are neutered or turned into clowns in popular culture and have become sensitive to it (in the scientific sense, meaning I tend to be on the look out for it). Whether Mr. Sulu's absence of romance in TOS is evidence of racist intent, I can't say. Other types of bias (witting or not) have been evident in Trek, so this type of bias might have been present as well. I hope that you don't have to be Asian to at least entertain the possibility.
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