Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[HotRod]

How dare a show try and do such a thing.

 

[cooleddie74]

"I took some wee history at the Academy...when I showed up. Are you....related to THE Khan Noonien Singh?"

 

[137th Gebirg]

It's in the Prime Universe because they intentionally wanted to fill in the backstories of characters we already know and love. Characters that were honestly not terribly developed to begin with. Making SNW part of those characters lives, does nothing but enrich personal development of those legacy characters. It makes the stories actually matter.

Also, as I've mentioned before, there's a certain segment of the fandom that would automatically view anything not of the Prime timeline as being something of lesser importance. They would use it as a litmus test as to whether or not somebody is a True Fan.

We've seen it on this very forum.

So what? I've always thought this type of reasoning is Bonkers. Just because I know the destination, doesn't mean I can't enjoy the ride to get there. It makes that final destination all the more impactful.

Having Kirk visit the Enterprise doesn't violate any kind of continuity in any way shape or form.

As you alluded to, some folks forget it's not about the destination for prequels, it's literally all about the journey. Does the fact that we all know certain characters have neutronium-laced plot armor in this show, or know exactly who's not going to make it diminish the experience? No. Such is the nature of prequels. Claiming not to care about the characters because we know that their fates are firmly established in the lore completely misses the point of the kind of show we're watching.

I could be wrong, but the real problem here, I think, is that SNW isn't showing the journey of certain well-known characters that some fans felt should have happened the way it's unfolding. (There's that vexing little word again - "should"). It's a kind of passive-aggressive gatekeeping, veiled in accusations towards the showrunners about not knowing the characters well enough. Because, of course, the fans know best!

 

[eschaton]

I do think that making it Prime Universe was the biggest mistake the SNW team ever made. The series doesn't want to line up with TOS and later shows, it just wants to have fun and tell stories about people in relationships.

Not sure why so many Trekkies care about continuity so much. I've always looked at continuity as being pretty loose, with each of the series being more dramatic reenactments of historical happenings within the Star Trek universe than actual documentary footage.

How is anyone supposed to care about Pike and Batel, Spock and Chapel, or La'an and Kirk etc. when we know it doesn't work out for any of them? Their futures are set.

I've never, ever understood this criticism. People can watch historical dramas taking place in the Roman Empire, despite having the knowledge that the Roman Empire will fall. Hell, people can still derive pleasure out of watching Shakespeare's plays, or a retelling of the Odyssey, despite the endings having been known for centuries and millennia respectively.

The enjoyment of stories does not rest in being surprised by their endings, in large part because the most beloved stories in human history are told and retold numerous times. Indeed, the whole narrative function of setup and payoff is to make it so that the reader/viewer knows what to expect in the case of a new story. If you read a mystery, you expect the crime to be solved. If you read a romance, you expect a happy ending. If you watch an action movie, you expect the bad guy to be killed or arrested. Endings can sometimes be subverted, but usually this pisses off an audience. People want predictable stories told well, by and large.

 

[The Wormhole]

"Fun is cancelled." Something actually spoken (well, written on a white board) by my humorless prick of a boss nearly twenty years ago.

 

[cooleddie74]

Fun is only canceled if you were ever the head of UPN.

Too soon?

 

[HotRod]

I do honestly think some fans have forgotten that Star Trek can be fun.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Actual footage of Trekkie reactions to seeing fun in Trek:

 

[Noname Given]

I do think that making it Prime Universe was the biggest mistake the SNW team ever made. The series doesn't want to line up with TOS and later shows, it just wants to have fun and tell stories about people in relationships. How is anyone supposed to care about Pike and Batel, Spock and Chapel, or La'an and Kirk etc. when we know it doesn't work out for any of them? Their futures are set.

No Trek series has 100% lined up with the Trek series before or after it.

Berman era Trek was especially no better in this regard.

 

[Noname Given]

So you agree then? It would've been better if it was a different universe.

TNG? Definitly.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Not sure why so many Trekkies care about continuity so much. I've always looked at continuity as being pretty loose, with each of the series being more dramatic reenactments of historical happenings within the Star Trek universe than actual documentary footage.

I'm the opposite, any hint of anything that breaks the illusion that it's reality starts to take me out of the story and turns me against it.

And I don't really care about continuity in the same way I don't really care about... the shoes they're wearing, or the colour of the seats etc. It's only a problem for me if it stands out as obviously wrong somehow. Like if Pike was walking around with giant clown shoes for an episode and no one commented on it. SNW's continuity is clown shoes sometimes.

I've never, ever understood this criticism. People can watch historical dramas taking place in the Roman Empire, despite having the knowledge that the Roman Empire will fall. Hell, people can still derive pleasure out of watching Shakespeare's plays, or a retelling of the Odyssey, despite the endings having been known for centuries and millennia respectively.

I don't have a problem with SNW being a prequel, I loved Andor and thought that it did a great job of telling the story of people whose fate is already known (and often tragic). But SNW is trying to be more of a bright happy series full of hijinx and comedy, so every relationship being doomed before it starts is a weird match.

Berman era Trek was especially no better in this regard.

Sure it was! Well, maybe Enterprise had its issues.

 

[Campe]

But SNW is trying to be more of a bright happy series full of hijinx and comedy, so every relationship being doomed before it starts is a weird match.

Its an optimistic vision of the future, just like the Berman era. And out of 22 episodes aired, 6 have been comedic episodes. And there have been some deeply serious episodes in those 22 as well. God forbid the show has some balance.

Sure it was! Well, maybe Enterprise had its issues.

You and I did not watch the same Star Trek from 1987-2005.

 

[fireproof78]

So you agree then? It would've been better if it was a different universe.

No.

It gives context to things previously unknown. I don't expect it to confirm what I already know.

I find it a good thing to bend continuity.

 

[Noname Given]

...Sure it was! Well, maybe Enterprise had its issues.

Let's see off the top of my head:

Data stated he was a graduate of the Academy Class of '78 (assuming 2278) in TNG S1 Encounter At Farpoint even though we learn he was discovered 26 years prior to TNG Season 1 which takes place in the year 2364 per TNG S1 The Neutral Zone. It was mean Data was discovered in 2338.

Worf stated he was raised on the Farming colony of Galt in TNG S1 Heart Of Glory but from TNG S4 Family and every subsequent episode where Worf's family history comes up Worf and his foster parents say he grew up on Earth.

Then there's the alien race the Trill:

Here's how a Trill looked standing next to Dr. Crusher in TNG S4 The Host:

And here's how a Trill looked starting in DS9 S1 The Emissary:

ALSO - in TNG S4 The Host it was stated Trills COULD NOT use Transporters as the transport process would kill the symbiont - and it was a plot point of the episode. That fact was conveniently forgotten by the time DS9 S1 The Emissary was broadcast.

And these are just 3 off the top of my head. There are MANY MANY more types of continuity issues in TNG; again, LIKE EVERY OTHER Star Trek franchise series ever made.

 

[cooleddie74]

No Trek series has 100% lined up with the Trek series before or after it.

Berman era Trek was especially no better in this regard.

Even the TOS movies didn't line up perfectly with themselves much less TOS itself.

 

[eschaton]

I'm the opposite, any hint of anything that breaks the illusion that it's reality starts to take me out of the story and turns me against it.

And I don't really care about continuity in the same way I don't really care about... the shoes they're wearing, or the colour of the seats etc. It's only a problem for me if it stands out as obviously wrong somehow. Like if Pike was walking around with giant clown shoes for an episode and no one commented on it. SNW's continuity is clown shoes sometimes.

Trek is completely full of these "illusion-breaking" elements, though. For example:

• Translation of alien languages. Even if we presume the semi-magic UT works, it wouldn't change people's mouths to match what's being said in English. Plus dialogue which takes place on alien worlds with no Federation crew member present is still translated. It's just there for audience convenience.
• Recasting: Are we meant to believe that characters get cosmetic surgery every so often to totally change their faces?
• Dramatic Lighting: The sort of dark, moody, stark lighting we often see in more modern Trek productions would be a huge work hazard. We can presume it's just there for show, and a real bridge wouldn't be nearly dark.

These are things that we all see as normal as they are within the norms of a TV production. However, they aren't "realistic" - and aren't things we would expect would take place within the actual Trekverse.

I don't have a problem with SNW being a prequel, I loved Andor and thought that it did a great job of telling the story of people whose fate is already known (and often tragic). But SNW is trying to be more of a bright happy series full of hijinx and comedy, so every relationship being doomed before it starts is a weird match.

Trek is not a franchise you watch for happy romantic endings. Seriously. The series is replete with middle-aged perpetual bachelors/bachelorettes. One somehow wonders how the Federation even manages to keep population growth positive given how few characters we see who settle down and have children.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Let's see off the top of my head:

Data stated he was a graduate of the Academy Class of '78 (assuming 2278) in TNG S1 Encounter At Farpoint even though we learn he was discovered 26 years prior to TNG Season 1 which takes place in the year 2364 per TNG S1 The Neutral Zone. It was mean Data was discovered in 2338.

Worf stated he was raised on the Farming colony of Galt in TNG S1 Heart Of Glory but from TNG S4 Family and every subsequent episode where Worf's family history comes up Worf and his foster parents say he grew up on Earth.

Then there's the alien race the Trill:

Here's how a Trill looked standing next to Dr. Crusher in TNG S4 The Host:

And here's how a Trill looked starting in DS9 S1 The Emissary:

ALSO - in TNG S4 The Host it was stated Trills COULD NOT use Transporters as the transport process would kill the symbiont - and it was a plot point of the episode. That fact was conveniently forgotten by the time DS9 S1 The Emissary was broadcast.

And these are just 3 off the top of my head. There are MANY MANY more types of continuity issues in TNG; again, LIKE EVERY OTHER Star Trek franchise series ever made.

Sure, but other than that, what have the Romans ever done for us?

 

[fireproof78]

is not a franchise you watch for happy romantic endings. Seriously. The series is replete with middle-aged perpetual bachelors/bachelorettes. One somehow wonders how the Federation even manages to keep population growth positive given how few characters we see who settle down and have children.

Probably because only like 1 to 5 percent of Federation citizens serve.

 

[Noname Given]

Probably because only like 1 to 5 percent of Federation citizens serve.

And the ones that do serve usually do so because of some MASSIVE personal or family trauma - especially in the TNG era too.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Klingons were a recent member of the Federation as late as Season 2 of TNG....until they weren't.