Still trying to pinpoint the third season "difference"

[Armus]

Some of the Kirk-Spock-Bones "banter", usually the coda at the end where Bones and Spock get into an argument about humanity and Kirk makes some bemused comment, was getting a little stale in season 2. One of the things I like about season 3 was that they abandoned that.

 

[plynch]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of those. I didn't know they reduced in S3.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yeah when they liked something, they leaned hard on it. The second season felt a little too comfy at times. One of the reasons The Doomsday Machine is my favorite episode is because there's little of the McCoy/Spock crankiness and the cast is split up. I hate to reference Cushman's books, but he does bring up a point that Coon would keep reusing ideas. There was a level of repetition in the Coon era that was shaken off after he left. Granted, some less than awesome stuff arrived in year 3, however, the strangeness and high concepts came back, the jokes were minimized and the familiarity was dialed back. Not everyone appreciated the change, but I did. Whether it was Roddenberry who wanted it more formal or Freiberger, either way, they got a thumbs up from me. #thirdseasonproud

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Yes, and of course the three comedy episodes are all season two. Added to that, we got a few repeated bits such as the 'Russian invention/origin' joke and Kirk’s 'pay for the week'. Reading what others have said, I agree - season two does dip into a bit more comfy, familiarity compared to the bookend seasons.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Some of the Kirk-Spock-Bones "banter", usually the coda at the end where Bones and Spock get into an argument about humanity and Kirk makes some bemused comment, was getting a little stale in season 2. .

It was necessary--part of the continued character bonding that made their relationship so popular. Similar to a real on-the-job relationship, the longer it goes on, the frequency of whatever bonds them (including debating) will intensify. As I said earlier in this thread, many of the season three relationships seemed cold and/or antagonistic--too much considering all that was built in seasons one and two. Yes, the dangers the crew faced can wear on nerves, but the characters were more edgy than not most of the time, which was unnatural. Thankfully, TAS worked to restore the friendlier bonds between the Big Three.

 

[Maurice]

I will never forgive Coon for the "mechanical rice picker" joke.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I will never forgive Coon for the "mechanical rice picker" joke.

I have a bigger issue with "My friend is obviously Chinese." That wouldn't fly in 1860, to say nothing of pulling it on a New York policeman in 1930. People knew what the Chinese look like. What the hell was Star Trek thinking?

If they had to play the scene as comedy, the joke should have been that Spock's features don't impress a cop in the least. Kirk is worried and starts to say "My friend's strange appearance--" and the cop says "I don't care WHAT he looks like, you're stealing laundry!"

 

[Ssosmcin]

It’s not that the Star Trek producers thought the cop would believe it...it’s the fact that KIRK thought he would believe it. And he was obviously wrong.

 

[Maurice]

I have a bigger issue with "My friend is obviously Chinese." That wouldn't fly in 1860, to say nothing of pulling it on a New York policeman in 1930. People knew what the Chinese look like. What the hell was Star Trek thinking?

If they had to play the scene as comedy, the joke should have been that Spock's features don't impress a cop in the least. Kirk is worried and starts to say "My friend's strange appearance--" and the cop says "I don't care WHAT he looks like, you're stealing laundry!"

I meant that entire bit. It's 100% Coon.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I have a bigger issue with "My friend is obviously Chinese." That wouldn't fly in 1860, to say nothing of pulling it on a New York policeman in 1930. People knew what the Chinese look like. What the hell was Star Trek thinking?

If they had to play the scene as comedy, the joke should have been that Spock's features don't impress a cop in the least. Kirk is worried and starts to say "My friend's strange appearance--" and the cop says "I don't care WHAT he looks like, you're stealing laundry!"

The scene worked because to humans--especially humans from the early 20th century who never set eyes on an alien--Spock was supposed to stand out as...an alien. The audience had to see it from Kirk's concern, and nothing else was meant by his story-telling.

 

[mb22]

An in the Ellison original, the two have to escape from a mob incited by a racist orator. Quite a different scene.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I have a bigger issue with "My friend is obviously Chinese." That wouldn't fly in 1860, to say nothing of pulling it on a New York policeman in 1930. People knew what the Chinese look like. What the hell was Star Trek thinking?

Spock being taken for Chinese in 1930 is from Ellison's original script. And in Ellison's version, Spock passes as a Chinese man for weeks.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Spock being taken for Chinese in 1930 is from Ellison's original script. And in Ellison's version, Spock passes as a Chinese man for weeks.

That takes Ellison down a peg in my estimation. Not that I thought he was a great genius before, but come on: people in 1930 NYC knew what the Chinese look like. Maybe it's a kind of chauvinism to think "People were in the dark and clueless before my generation came along."

 

[Mytran]

That takes Ellison down a peg in my estimation. Not that I thought he was a great genius before, but come on: people in 1930 NYC knew what the Chinese look like. Maybe it's a kind of chauvinism to think "People were in the dark and clueless before my generation came along."

Each generation has people that think of those that came before them as "in the dark and clueless", without realising that those earlier ones thought the exact same thing!

Also, young people have always been seen as troubled and up to no good. From Socrates:

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

 

[Ssosmcin]

To be fair to Ellison and everyone involved, trying to pass Spock off as Asian isn’t out of place with the times, either the 30’s or the 60’s. Non Asian actors played Asians in films well into the 60’s (Malachi Throne, Ricardo Montalban, and sooooo many others). Also, think about it: Spock’s skin was yellowish and he had upswept eyebrows common to depictions of Asians. It was the 30’s. What would be easier to believe? That Spock was from another planet or another country?

And hey, an Asian actor played Spock pretty well recently.

Data pretended to be French once and we laughed.

 

[Push The Button]

If they had to play the scene as comedy, the joke should have been that Spock's features don't impress a cop in the least. Kirk is worried and starts to say "My friend's strange appearance--" and the cop says "I don't care WHAT he looks like, you're stealing laundry!"

Any NYPD cop walking a beat, in 1930, 1975 or today, has seen it all. Spock’s unusual appearance probably didn’t even make his top ten for that week.

 

[marlboro]

Isn't a big part of the joke that they are caught stealing laundry and Kirk (lamely) pretends that Spock is part of a Chinese laundry service? The laundry business was traditionally one that attracted many Chinese immigrants, I think.

 

[Ssosmcin]

That does add some context to it. And, again, at no point does the cop look like he’s even believing it just a little bit. It’s Kirk failing to get out of trouble. From his perspective, he’s making an appropriate guess at the culture of the time.

If one of us went back in time 200 or 300 years, how correctly would we get it?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

To be fair to Ellison and everyone involved, trying to pass Spock off as Asian isn’t out of place with the times, either the 30’s or the 60’s. Non Asian actors played Asians in films well into the 60’s (Malachi Throne, Ricardo Montalban, and sooooo many others). Also, think about it: Spock’s skin was yellowish and he had upswept eyebrows common to depictions of Asians. It was the 30’s. What would be easier to believe? That Spock was from another planet or another country?

Leonard Nimoy played a Native American at least once before Star Trek. Pretty much any actor in that era who had an "exotic" look was cast as other ethnicities fairly frequently. It's only been in the last couple decades that it's become more common to think, "Oh, yeah... Maybe that isn't okay." And we're not as enlightened as we like to think we are. Hell, Johnny Depp was cast as Tonto just a few years ago.

Data pretended to be French once and we laughed.

When did they do that? I remember a running gag with him being identified as "South American" on the Holodeck in the Dixon Hill scenario in "The Big Goodbye," but I don't know if that should really count, as they were in a computer simulation of the 1940s, and they could program the computer to have people respond to (or not respond to) Data's appearance any way they wanted.

 

[Ssosmcin]

When did they do that? I remember a running gag with him being identified as "South American" on the Holodeck in the Dixon Hill scenario in "The Big Goodbye," but I don't know if that should really count, as they were in a computer simulation of the 1940s, and they could program the computer to have people respond to (or not respond to) Data's appearance any way they wanted.

“Time’s Arrow” part 2. The bellhop asked why he spoke strangely and assumed he was a Frenchman. Later at a card game, Data said as much to respond to weird reactions. It was a gag. Something like he was a French inventor or something

This is from memory, it’s been years since I’ve seen it