Stigma & The AIDS Allegory
- Thread starter thatklingonbitch
- Start date
Posted by Komet155:
Oh, so now you're extending the definition of rape in favor of the recipient of an intimate act to absolve her of any responsibility??????
is that what you're saying? that even if he did not proceed beyond the point he was no longer welcome to mind meld her, he's guilty of rape because she's not responsible for allowing him to do the meld?
Im confused. Or, at least I hope I am.
EDIT: your argument assumes she had no knowledge of the possible risks or ill effects, yet T'Pol was familiar with the definition of a mind meld (she actually said so in 'Fusion' before agreeing to one) and also familiar with panar syndrome (there's no indication of when she learned of the disease, but there's a good chance it was before Fusion occured, since she's a scientist). Finally, she had admitted to that rape guy in Fusion that she had experimented with unorthodox vulcan behaviors/thinking when she was younger. all of these details point to the fact that she did not go into the mind meld at a disadvantage borne of ignorance.
A great series of points you're making, Komet , and not just because I'm a card carrying member of the Komet Ragers Club .
As a mature woman, myself, I find the "Tpol couldn't help herself" argument rubs me the wrong way. This is no child we are talking abiut here, but a mature adult with the ability to make her own choices. Just because she chooses unwisely it does not follow that she was coerced. Tolaris explained to her about the intimate nature of the melds and offered to do a guided mediation instead (we don't have to go all the way, baby, if you're not ready yet). She purposely chooses the meld because she is intrigued. She is totally responsible for the meld being initiated. I'm not buying that a former security agent, current ranking officer of the High Command and First Officer on ENT doesn't have the maturity to say "yes" if she chooses.
Now, once she says stop...AND he refuses to, a crime has occured. If he had stopped immediately, and she still contracted P'Narr Syndrome, there would have been no moral lapse (anyone note yet the odd similarity between this debate and the Kobe Bryant situation...sex was initially consenual, girl says no later...at what point is it rape?). They tried to make Stigma a meesage story without any culpability on the part of T'Pol. As I've said before, it would have been far more realistic to examine why people make choices that put their lives at risk (smoking, sex without protection, etc). We can't carry on and on about how strong and capable she is as a woman and then say "he tricked her" the first time one of her choices gets her into a jam.
So you believe that no virgin, regardless of her age or level of intelligence, can acually give consent to sex....because they are neophytes concerning this issue. Boy, there's a hell of a lot of casual raping going on right now if that's the case and every woman who's sexually active has been raped at least once! Sorry, I can't buy into this at all!
It's okay, Lattelady , on so many other more important things, we agree. If Archer does ever get a romantic involvemnt going with T'Pol, I hope he's not her first. I would hate to have to think of the good captain as a rapist.
The first two sentences in your post above are the most accurate. She made some unwise choices. You can delegate work, but you can't delegate accountability.
^^^ as a guy, I prefer the common sense approach as Odie describes above. I want to know that as long as there is communication during any hanky panky that indicates stop or go, and it's properly heeded, that I would have nothing further to worry about. It would make me paranoid to think that even if i act correctly based on the current situation, i could be held retroactively accountable based on some loose standard applied after the fact.
I welcome/dare anyone (male or female) who intends to use such standards to give a full accounting of such risks ahead of time to the "lucky" guy (or girl).
I would venture they'll have a hard time finding someone to agree to assume undue risk (accusation of criminal behavior and the lot) just for sex.
I welcome/dare anyone (male or female) who intends to use such standards to give a full accounting of such risks ahead of time to the "lucky" guy (or girl).
I would venture they'll have a hard time finding someone to agree to assume undue risk (accusation of criminal behavior and the lot) just for sex.
The way I see it, it is B&B's "out" for her being involved with the meld and getting the disease without making it her own fault... wether it's logical or not, I don't see the thought process in the script going nearly as far as any of you. In fact I wonder if anyone even bothered to glance at the old script and remind themselves of the exact circumstances of the meld.
To get technical... we'll never know at what point in the meld she was actually infected (the consentual part of the non-consentual part) so we'll never know for sure who is to "blame", because at this point it's just playing the blame game, which in this case makes a difference to the Vulcans. As far as the plot goes, that's her "out" and that's all I think they were thinking about when they wrote it.
As for the current discussion at hand, I think Odie and Komet have stated it well enough that I can just agree with them.
To get technical... we'll never know at what point in the meld she was actually infected (the consentual part of the non-consentual part) so we'll never know for sure who is to "blame", because at this point it's just playing the blame game, which in this case makes a difference to the Vulcans. As far as the plot goes, that's her "out" and that's all I think they were thinking about when they wrote it.
As for the current discussion at hand, I think Odie and Komet have stated it well enough that I can just agree with them.
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