STC's Lolani

[Warped9]

This is the thing if you're trying to do stories that ring true with TOS, as STC states they want to do. To get the stories as close to feeling authentic as possible then you have to try adopting a 1960's perspective rather than a 2013-2015 perspective. That means you try for a progressive perspective as viewed from fifty years ago rather than a current progressive perspective.

That's why McKenna feels shoehorned in at times and stories like "The White Iris" feel out of place and more like TNG. It's simply not how things were seen on television and much of society back in the day.

That said another couple of lines of dialogue to clarify things a bit more would have been appreciated.

 

[Karzak]

Good sweet lord. Can we give the "McKennah feels shoehorned in..." spiel a rest once an for all please?

 

[BillJ]

Good sweet lord. Can we give the "McKennah feels shoehorned in..." spiel a rest once an for all please?

She actually does.

They also seem to be doing the same thing Abrams did, decreasing McCoy's role in order to use her more. There's nothing wrong with changing the dynamics, I just wished that McKenna was more interesting.

 

[Bixby]

Good sweet lord. Can we give the "McKennah feels shoehorned in..." spiel a rest once an for all please?

Nope, sorry...

 

[Warped9]

We're not saying McKennah should be removed or the stories have been bad, but simply stating what we see. Unwittingly or not they're injecting a TNG like sensibility into the episodes that feels out of place in something TOS centric.

 

[Karzak]

So what? Let it go, Indiana!

 

[Zaminhon]

We're not saying McKennah should be removed or the stories have been bad, but simply stating what we see. Unwittingly or not they're injecting a TNG like sensibility into the episodes that feels out of place in something TOS centric.

When McKennah gets a seat next to Kirk I'll start to worry, otherwise I'm not feeling a TNG connection. More Helen Noel and less Troi for me.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

We're not saying McKennah should be removed or the stories have been bad, but simply stating what we see. Unwittingly or not they're injecting a TNG like sensibility into the episodes that feels out of place in something TOS centric.

When McKennah gets a seat next to Kirk I'll start to worry, otherwise I'm not feeling a TNG connection. More Helen Noel and less Troi for me.

I agree, that we would never see a role like Dr. McKennah on TOS... BUT, I don't think we would have ever seen a Holodeck either....

As much as I like Larry Nemecek, he just wasn't a good fit for McCoy, and decreasing his role, I think was a good choice... I like Chuck Huber a lot more for the part, so hopefully now they have someone to fill that role well, we will see a more prominent place for McCoy

 

[Wowbagger]

One thing I've never quite understood is why we collectively feel the need to add any new characters to the TOS bridge crew. The TOS ensemble was the most underused and underdeveloped in history.

I once ran the numbers: the proverbially underdeveloped Travis Mayweather actually has more lines per hour (19.1) on average than Sulu (12.1) AND Chekov (12.2) AND Uhura (11.5). Hoshi Sato (23.0) has significantly more to do than Scotty himself (19.5). This was because James T. Kirk absolutely dominated the original Star Trek, with 131 lines per hour, whereas the other series were much more ensemble affairs. Sisko, for example, only had 69 lines per hour, making room for a huge cast.*

A fan continuation series is an opportunity to make up for this: to give Sulu and Chekov and Uhura and Scotty a number of spotlight episodes to themselves, plus a whole lot more to do in the week-to-week plots of each episode. Instead, however, they've been definitively sidelined, in both of the major continuation series, by new characters who -- while arguably fitting -- aren't really rooted in the history of the series, and aren't the reason we're watching.

To me, this does not make sense, even if one personally likes Dr. McKennah and/or Peter Kirk. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

I love both Phase II and Continues overall, of course. This part doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but they're both at the pinnacle of what good fan films can be.

*FUN FACT: Garak, a recurring character, has more lines per hour of DS9 (11.7) than Uhura has per hour of TOS (11.5). Garak appears in way fewer episodes, but, when he does, he is given a LOT to do.

 

[USS Triumphant]

McKennah is easily the most attractive TOS era female crewperson, aside from maybe Yeoman Barrows, IMO. And I also think she is very well acted, and I like her character, generally. So I really want it to seem like she fits... but she really doesn't very well. Maybe if STC was set in the monster maroons era, but TOS is too far away from TNG for the bridge they're trying to do to seem right - especially since we didn't see counselors in ST II - VI.

 

[Tim Thomason]

McKennah is easily the most attractive TOS era female crewperson, aside from maybe Yeoman Barrows, IMO. And I also think she is very well acted, and I like her character, generally. So I really want it to seem like she fits... but she really doesn't very well. Maybe if STC was set in the monster maroons era, but TOS is too far away from TNG for the bridge they're trying to do to seem right - especially since we didn't see counselors in ST II - VI.

Wait until Episode 11, where McKennah makes a complete mess of things and pushes the Counselors' Rights movement back 90 years.

 

[Amaris]

Good sweet lord. Can we give the "McKennah feels shoehorned in..." spiel a rest once an for all please?

She actually does.

They also seem to be doing the same thing Abrams did, decreasing McCoy's role in order to use her more. There's nothing wrong with changing the dynamics, I just wished that McKenna was more interesting.

That's the thing, I agree she feels shoehorned in, but at the same time, I like her character quite a lot, and Michelle is great at what she does. It's an odd balance, I think.

 

[mos6507]

That's the thing, I agree she feels shoehorned in, but at the same time, I like her character quite a lot, and Michelle is great at what she does. It's an odd balance, I think.

McKenna fills a void because the rest of the actors really didn't shine in their roles at first. I don't know if she's a good actress but she feels more polished than the others, despite the fact she probably gets all the best lines by virtue of the nepotism of being Vic's girlfriend. Since the early episodes they've developed Spock and McCoy (with Huber) but there's a lot more they could do to try to bring the others up to par and if they keep giving McKenna all the screen-time, that won't happen.

It would also be nice if they used Chris Doohan as a more integral piece of the plot. He's great when he has lines to deliver, but he usually doesn't drive the plot, so he's kind of wasted. He could use a Wolf in the Fold sort of episode.

 

[Warped9]

That's the thing, I agree she feels shoehorned in, but at the same time, I like her character quite a lot, and Michelle is great at what she does. It's an odd balance, I think.

This is how I feel. She feels somewhat out of place, but she's quite effective in her role.

 

[Amaris]

McKenna fills a void because the rest of the actors really didn't shine in their roles at first. I don't know if she's a good actress but she feels more polished than the others, despite the fact she probably gets all the best lines by virtue of the nepotism of being Vic's girlfriend. Since the early episodes they've developed Spock and McCoy (with Huber) but there's a lot more they could do to try to bring the others up to par and if they keep giving McKenna all the screen-time, that won't happen.

It would also be nice if they used Chris Doohan as a more integral piece of the plot. He's great when he has lines to deliver, but he usually doesn't drive the plot, so he's kind of wasted. He could use a Wolf in the Fold sort of episode.

I didn't know she was Vic's girlfriend, but then I don't pay attention to that kind of stuff. I would also like to see Chris Doohan get more screen time, as he seems quite capable of making good work while he's there.

That's the thing, I agree she feels shoehorned in, but at the same time, I like her character quite a lot, and Michelle is great at what she does. It's an odd balance, I think.

This is how I feel. She feels somewhat out of place, but she's quite effective in her role.

Exactly. For what she does, she does very well. I guess I just associate ship counselors with TNG, so it may just be all in my own head.

 

[Warped9]

A common misconception that has grown over the years is that TOS was an ensemble show like TNG and the other spinoffs. It wasn't. In the beginning it was a star show--Kirk--then quickly become a two star show--Kirk and Spock--then became a three star show: Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

TOS also didn't have a truly strong female voice beyond the various guest stars. Again that wouldn't change in Trek until TNG where a distinct female viewpoint was evident with Crusher (and Pulaski) and Troi as well as various female guest characters.

TOS could have had a female voice with Uhura, but the writers and creators weren't yet prepared to explore that unlike what was being done on some other series of the day. In that respect TOS fumbled on the progressive front. Things might have been different if the show had kept the role of Number One, but GR disposed of the character after the first pilot (and why is a whole other story). And Janice Rand as well as Nurse Chapel were never going to be prominant characters.

Uhura's strength was largely in her presence and what she represented (to the audiences of the day), but they failed to further explore her role.

Now along comes STC and rather than explore the road not taken by TOS' creative team in giving Uhura a little more focus they choose to introduce McKennah as the prominent female character as well as the show's distinct recurring female viewpoint. Uhura has again been left largely in the background.

With the addition of McKennah as well as Drake and Smith they are trying to make the show more ensemble like than it was ever intended to be. This isn't to say what they've done is wrong or bad, but that it does change the overall feel of the show to an extent.

McKennah is a likeable and effective character, but she comes at the expense of Uhura (and to some extent McCoy) who were both there from the beginning.

 

[USS Intrepid]

A common misconception that has grown over the years is that TOS was an ensemble show like TNG and the other spinoffs. It wasn't. In the beginning it was a star show--Kirk--then quickly become a two star show--Kirk and Spock--then became a three star show: Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

TOS also didn't have a truly strong female voice beyond the various guest stars. Again that wouldn't change in Trek until TNG where a distinct female viewpoint was evident with Crusher (and Pulaski) and Troi as well as various female guest characters.

TOS could have had a female voice with Uhura, but the writers and creators weren't yet prepared to explore that unlike what was being done on some other series of the day. In that respect TOS fumbled on the progressive front. Things might have been different if the show had kept the role of Number One, but GR disposed of the character after the first pilot (and why is a whole other story). And Janice Rand as well as Nurse Chapel were never going to be prominant characters.

Uhura's strength was largely in her presence and what she represented (to the audiences of the day), but they failed to further explore her role.

Now along comes STC and rather than explore the road not taken by TOS' creative team in giving Uhura a little more focus they choose to introduce McKennah as the prominent female character as well as the show's distinct recurring female viewpoint. Uhura has again been left largely in the background.

With the addition of McKennah as well as Drake and Smith they are trying to make the show more ensemble like than it was ever intended to be. This isn't to say what they've done is wrong or bad, but that it does change the overall feel of the show to an extent.

McKennah is a likeable and effective character, but she comes at the expense of Uhura (and to some extent McCoy) who were both there from the beginning.

I think that's a fair assessment, and it's certainly one I agree with.

 

[OpenMaw]

Of course, we really don't know what might have happened had Season 4-5 actually happened. For all we know some of the original cast may have dropped out to persue other things and/or we might have picked up another "Chekov" type who was added to fill in a different quato or demo.

 

[9gs]

Of course, we really don't know what might have happened had Season 4-5 actually happened. For all we know some of the original cast may have dropped out to persue other things and/or we might have picked up another "Chekov" type who was added to fill in a different quato or demo.

I agree. STC is supposed to be season 4. If TOS had survived another season some changes would have been made. It happened to all series that were close to cancellation. While Vic is an outstanding Captain Kirk and the obvious star and leader of STC, I don't think he feels the need to be in every scene. That naturally gives more lines to other members of the crew. McKennah had nothing to do in EP5 but she was outstanding in EP4.

 

[DCR]

A common misconception that has grown over the years is that TOS was an ensemble show like TNG and the other spinoffs. It wasn't. In the beginning it was a star show--Kirk--then quickly become a two star show--Kirk and Spock--then became a three star show: Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

TOS also didn't have a truly strong female voice beyond the various guest stars. Again that wouldn't change in Trek until TNG where a distinct female viewpoint was evident with Crusher (and Pulaski) and Troi as well as various female guest characters.

TOS could have had a female voice with Uhura, but the writers and creators weren't yet prepared to explore that unlike what was being done on some other series of the day. In that respect TOS fumbled on the progressive front. Things might have been different if the show had kept the role of Number One, but GR disposed of the character after the first pilot (and why is a whole other story). And Janice Rand as well as Nurse Chapel were never going to be prominant characters.

Uhura's strength was largely in her presence and what she represented (to the audiences of the day), but they failed to further explore her role.

Now along comes STC and rather than explore the road not taken by TOS' creative team in giving Uhura a little more focus they choose to introduce McKennah as the prominent female character as well as the show's distinct recurring female viewpoint. Uhura has again been left largely in the background.

With the addition of McKennah as well as Drake and Smith they are trying to make the show more ensemble like than it was ever intended to be. This isn't to say what they've done is wrong or bad, but that it does change the overall feel of the show to an extent.

McKennah is a likeable and effective character, but she comes at the expense of Uhura (and to some extent McCoy) who were both there from the beginning.

I think that's a fair assessment, and it's certainly one I agree with.

That's actually my one issue with McKennah, that she takes screen time away from Uhura.

There was one moment in particular in Lolani where I thought they missed a huge opportunity by giving the scene to McKennah instead of Uhura.