STC Ep. 7: "Embrace The Winds" speculation and discussion....

[Zaminhon]

This whole thing is absurd.

CBS said "If you follow these guidelines, we promise not to sue you." They said nothing about applying those guidelines to current series... they said nothing about applying those guidelines to everyone at all, frankly. There is nothing - ZERO, NADA - that CBS said which even remotely implies that current fan series in production WILL be shut down if they don't follow all the guidelines.

As for the nonsensical theories about how "CBS has to apply their rules equally to all fan films or Axanar will use it as a defense", please see the case law established in Paramount Pictures v. Carol Publishing, 25 F. Supp. 2d 372 S.D.N.Y. 1998.
(Summary: Copyright holders can pick and chose where, and with whom, they enforce their copyrights. They can give "special treatment" to anyone they choose, and it can't be used against them in court. It's their intellectual property.)

Even Buzzed reported a couple days ago, when asked whether the guidelines would apply to current ongoing fan series in production, CBS wouldn't comment.

Read between the lines, people. I think reports of fan films' deaths are greatly exaggerated.

The guidelines are very specific and "poking the bear" is what got us into the current situation. Overstepping and violating the stated limits will most likely make things worse. I am expecting that C/P will be more pro-active in handing out C&D's to violators and if they are frequent enough they may decide to pull the plug on the whole thing.

I do agree that films that are currently in production will most likely be allowed to finish up, but any new projects will be closely monitored.

 

[Warped9]

Curious. A recent post on STC's FB continues to foster the idea that Ep. 7, "Embracing The Winds," is still forthcoming.

A phrase like, "Are you looking forward to a new episode?" is included in the post.

 

[Firebird]

Curious. A recent post on STC's FB continues to foster the idea that Ep. 7, "Embracing The Winds," is still forthcoming.

A phrase like, "Are you looking forward to a new episode?" is included in the post.

It could've been a scheduled post, or perhaps they're trying to keep a positive outlook going?

 

[Warped9]

It could've been a scheduled post, or perhaps they're trying to keep a positive outlook going?

Yeah, I thought about that. I suppose I expected more of a holding pattern approach until further word of how or if they will go forward.

Then again they haven't yet stated Ep. 7 won't see the light of day.

I remain cautiously hopeful for STC.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

My total SWAG is that productions that have been playing nice will be (unofficially, of course) told:
A) no releasing anything not guidelines-compliant until the Axanar lawsuit is settled or otherwise completed
B) after the lawsuit is over, they can release a film if it was more than X% complete when the guidelines were handed down.
C) That release has to be streaming-only and can't be shown at cons, etc. (no using infringements to help the cons sell tickets).
D) That CBS might look the other way on the time/series limits for future productions but will give the stink eye to any other guidelines violations.

So, yeah, I think STC, etc. are basically done . My gut feeling is that the lawyers wanted fanfilms to go away completely, but the more fanfilm-friendly elements in CBS managed to rein them in a bit, leading to the guidelines we got.

But now that CBS was forced to notice fanfilms, I think they will be treated harsher than they were when CBS could mostly pretend to not notice them. That's what happens once lawyers get involved.

While guidelines do not say "...and if you don't comply, we will likely shut you down" I think that is an unstated but strongly-implied threat.

Mjnd you, I really hope I'm wrong!

 

[Warped9]

Engage's podcast featuring interview of a CBS rep: https://overcast.fm/+GuW5Epb-k

No matter what you think it's worth listening to. Unfortunately it looks like something like STC and the like are done in their current form. But there appears to be more flexibility then initially believed.

However, there just might be enough wiggle room for Ep. 7 to see the light of day.

 

[Phoenix219]

I wonder what this means for the multitude of old but unreleased Phase 2 stuff.

 

[USS Intrepid]

I wonder what this means for the multitude of old but unreleased Phase 2 stuff.

Potentially okay because they've already been shot, though I imagine there'll be some discussion about that.

 

[Warped9]

I wonder what this means for the multitude of old but unreleased Phase 2 stuff.

That was touched on actually. These guidelines are not being applied retroactively. Pre-existing materiel can be released pretty much as is.

But it does raise the question regarding materiel about to be released. STC's Ep. 7 is pretty much complete. I'm guessing Vic is having a quiet conversation to allow it to be released in its intended form.

But Chris Doohan and Kipleigh Brown have appeared in previous official Trek productions. But are they now barred from further particupation? Didn't Vic do voice work for Star Trek Online or something, and if so is he now barred from further participation?

 

[Tosk]

Based on that podcast, it sure sounds like anything that is "in the can" is pretty much okay to be released. The guidelines are primarily there to limit future fan films.

He also explicitly said that they take each one on a case by case basis, so there is some chance that certain productions may be granted a little leeway in regards to some of the restrictions. (But not time limit. He mentions 50 minute runtimes as not gonna happen. Edit: Hrrm, and not casting either.)

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Engage's podcast featuring interview of a CBS rep: https://overcast.fm/+GuW5Epb-k

No matter what you think it's worth listening to. Unfortunately it looks like something like STC and the like are done in their current form. But there appears to be more flexibility then initially believed.

However, there just might be enough wiggle room for Ep. 7 to see the light of day.

Yeah -- that's how I interpret it, too. Seems pretty clear that STC is over and done with in its current form going forward. The CBS rep explicitly said "50 minute episodes and 90 minute movies are what we do". I don't see the time limits & no series guideline being something they'll look the other way on. And I'm worried about the "no one who participated in official Trek" one being held firm to as well. Hopefully just being a voice in a licensed game won't be enough to knock out Vic. But I have a bad feeling about some of the other cast.

But he did certainly appear to give Yorktown a green light to release and said they won't be looking to scrub what's already out there. So hopefully the fact that Ep 7 was all shot before the guidelines came down will be enough for CBS to let it be released.

 

[drt]

I'm not sure that Continues couldn't just continue (sorry) as 2x15m episodes. From the Engage podcast, it seemed like the "no episodes" language was intended more as not letting folks get around the 2x15m time limit for a single episode.

The last few episodes have been 40ish minutes anyway, loose the intro/end credits, plus tighten the story a little bit and I think they'd be OK.

 

[DavidAntman]

Funny, I heard it completely differently. He said the guidelines are not hard-and-fast "laws" (his word) and will be applied on a per-fanfilm basis.

 

[drt]

Funny, I heard it completely differently. He said the guidelines are not hard-and-fast "laws" (his word) and will be applied on a per-fanfilm basis.

Actually, that was my impression having only read the transcript, after listening to the podcast, I now don't think it was really addressed clearly enough to say for sure.

 

[Firebird]

Going forward, I hope for either of these to happen for STC:

1) adapt the storytelling to the 30 minute story limit, and do 60's-style episodic adventures (as Doug Drexler mentioned, in a format similar to Have Gun, Will Travel). Take it from the assumption that NBC made the show cut costs by reducing it to half-hour time slots, midseason.

2) after releasing Embrace the Winds, CBS allows STC to do a eighth and final full-length episode as a series finale, and they bow out gracefully.

 

[Warped9]

A number of dramatic shows from the 1950s along with TAS show that complete stories can be told in 30 minutes. If you tighten your beginning and end credits to fit within 1 minute you have 29 minutes left for story. Thats certainly more than what half hour shows on television have ever had.

And given that JVC said they wouldn't be strictly policing run times you could probably get away with beginning and ending credits fitting within 30 seconds and your story taking a full 30 minutes. The end result would be a production running to 30:30.

The key is being allowed to tell a story that runs to 30 minutes rather than having to do it in two 15 minute parts.

There is also being allowed to do separate self-contained stories with recurring characters.

 

[Warped9]

Another podcast interviewing Vic Mignogna: http://geekishcast.com/2016/06/29/vic-mignogna-captain-kirk-star-trek-continues/

From about the 40 minute mark they start talking about the guidelines. He also speaks with certainty that Ep. 7 will definitely premiere in September.

He also speaks more forcefully about how things have gotten to the current state.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

He also speaks more forcefully about how things have gotten to the current state.

Can you give a summary?

 

[Phoenix219]

I know its a pipe dream, but how great would it be if the professionalism, class, and outpouring of public support for STC somehow lead to them being given a sanctioned position to complete TOS in a way that CBS could sell it later....

Just hanging onto threads, I know. STC and fanfilms is what sort of reignited Trek for me, for the first time in many years, and is definitely the novelty that has caught my eye, and brought me back into the fandom.

 

[Warped9]

Can you give a summary?

While he says pretty much what has already been said about Alec Peters and Axanar (although he doesn't refer to them by name) you can sense the exasperation and anger under his words. He makes reference to greedy and exploitative people seeking to gain at others' expense.

He also references being approached numerous times to monetonize STC and that he has refused them all ever time.