State-run health care

[TheLonelySquire]

Healthcare is not a right.

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

If you are speaking of constitutional rights consider that the great thing about our constitution is that it is amendable. If the people want to make health care a right, we can do so -- just as was done with voting for women and black men, for example. I believe that our constitution is outdated in this specific regard, and could well be updated. I also think that this is the ONLY humane, decent, and civilized opinion.

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science.

Prove it. All the evidence I've seen shows the exact opposite.

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be. However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

 

[Arrqh]

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be. However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Your already being "ripped off" to pay for people who cannot afford health care. This has been explained over and over, but when people who can't afford or get access to preventative care go to an emergency room to get emergency treatment and then can't pay the bill... the costs get passed on to everyone else. This is one of the primary reasons why health care in the US costs more per person then any other country in the world.

Bottom line... publicly funded healthcare for everyone is cheaper then what we have in the US now. And the evidence is every single other country with a UHC-type system. If you really cared about not being "ripped off" you should be in favor of the system that would reduce costs... not the system that happens to line up with your pre-established political ideologies.

 

[Capn Flukie]

I'm ripped off by tax-breaks for churches. I'm an atheist. Why should I have to pay for those slackers, why can't they get their money from God instead of working people like me?

 

[thestrangequark]

Healthcare is not a right.

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

If you are speaking of constitutional rights consider that the great thing about our constitution is that it is amendable. If the people want to make health care a right, we can do so -- just as was done with voting for women and black men, for example. I believe that our constitution is outdated in this specific regard, and could well be updated. I also think that this is the ONLY humane, decent, and civilized opinion.

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science.

Prove it. All the evidence I've seen shows the exact opposite.

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be.

Again, this is your opinion (and a disgusting one, in my opinion).

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Did you know that countries with UHC have healthier populations? This is due to a number of reasons, one of which is access to preventive care. I wonder how many people could avoid going on disability if they had adequate preventative care? I wonder if it would be enough to balance out the small percentage who abuse the welfare system? I don't have answers, just thinking out loud (well, in text, actually).

Countries with UHC also pay less per person than Americans do on health care, and have better quality health care (WHO ranks the US at 37, after the countries with UHC like UK and France). So you're getting care of lesser quality, and paying more. Not only that, you run the risk of losing your coverage based only on the arbitrary standards and greedy whims of a few individuals running insurance companies that do not have to answer to the people, and do not have to deal with the market competition a public option would provide to promote better practices. THINK! It is the current system that is ripping you off! It comes to this: There is no good practical argument against UHC in America. Give me one. One, that I cannot refute. So far you have failed. The only arguments you have supplied are based in the morally bankrupt idea that people deserve to live only if they can pay for it. A cruel, heartless, disgusting idea.

 

[Guartho]

Taxes do not equal stealing. Christ Himself said that taxes are OK and stealing is not.

Furthermore, the High Council of Internet Discussion Policy (which coincidentally includes Christ) has made the following decree: Anyone who tries to equate taxes with stealing immediately disqualifies himself from the discussion. It is the healthcare discussion equivalent of Godwinning and is an automatic epic FAIL.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be. However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Your already being "ripped off" to pay for people who cannot afford health care. This has been explained over and over, but when people who can't afford or get access to preventative care go to an emergency room to get emergency treatment and then can't pay the bill... the costs get passed on to everyone else. This is one of the primary reasons why health care in the US costs more per person then any other country in the world.

Bottom line... publicly funded healthcare for everyone is cheaper then what we have in the US now. And the evidence is every single other country with a UHC-type system. If you really cared about not being "ripped off" you should be in favor of the system that would reduce costs... not the system that happens to line up with your pre-established political ideologies.

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless. It's so sick and sad that people can advocate stealing from others to give to people that can provide for themselves. People should give THEIR money from the heart charitably. Not other people's money.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

If you are speaking of constitutional rights consider that the great thing about our constitution is that it is amendable. If the people want to make health care a right, we can do so -- just as was done with voting for women and black men, for example. I believe that our constitution is outdated in this specific regard, and could well be updated. I also think that this is the ONLY humane, decent, and civilized opinion.

Prove it. All the evidence I've seen shows the exact opposite.

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be.

Again, this is your opinion (and a disgusting one, in my opinion).

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Did you know that countries with UHC have healthier populations? This is due to a number of reasons, one of which is access to preventive care. I wonder how many people could avoid going on disability if they had adequate preventative care? I wonder if it would be enough to balance out the small percentage who abuse the welfare system? I don't have answers, just thinking out loud (well, in text, actually).

Countries with UHC also pay less per person than Americans do on health care, and have better quality health care (WHO ranks the US at 37, after the countries with UHC like UK and France). So you're getting care of lesser quality, and paying more. Not only that, you run the risk of losing your coverage based only on the arbitrary standards and greedy whims of a few individuals running insurance companies that do not have to answer to the people, and do not have to deal with the market competition a public option would provide to promote better practices. THINK! It is the current system that is ripping you off! It comes to this: There is no good practical argument against UHC in America. Give me one. One, that I cannot refute. So far you have failed. The only arguments you have supplied are based in the morally bankrupt idea that people deserve to live only if they can pay for it. A cruel, heartless, disgusting idea.

I have no problem with healthcare reform and I advocate it. THAT would bring down costs. Not having a giant government bureaucracy operate a sith of the economy when they can't turn a buck delivering a .43 cent letter.

Stealing is disgusting. And immoral.

 

[Arrqh]

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless.

Reality is baseless?

 

[Cakes488]

We need universal health care and we need it now....for many reasons.

One of them being is.... I know of quite a few people who have objects embedded up their ass. They are in desperate need surgey but sadly insurance won't cover it. For this reason alone it needs to pass.

 

[thestrangequark]

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be. However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Your already being "ripped off" to pay for people who cannot afford health care. This has been explained over and over, but when people who can't afford or get access to preventative care go to an emergency room to get emergency treatment and then can't pay the bill... the costs get passed on to everyone else. This is one of the primary reasons why health care in the US costs more per person then any other country in the world.

Bottom line... publicly funded healthcare for everyone is cheaper then what we have in the US now. And the evidence is every single other country with a UHC-type system. If you really cared about not being "ripped off" you should be in favor of the system that would reduce costs... not the system that happens to line up with your pre-established political ideologies.

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless.

Why can't it be used as evidence? Certainly we cannot know exactly how things would work out, the smaller details, but we can know the bigger effects.

It's so sick and sad that people can advocate stealing from others to give to people that can provide for themselves. People should give THEIR money from the heart charitably. Not other people's money.

Again. Taxes are not stealing. And again, you've not provided a practical argument for your position. And if you have charity in your heart, how on earth can you be against UHC?!

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Taxes do not equal stealing. Christ Himself said that taxes are OK and stealing is not.

Furthermore, the High Council of Internet Discussion Policy (which coincidentally includes Christ) has made the following decree: Anyone who tries to equate taxes with stealing immediately disqualifies himself from the discussion. It is the healthcare discussion equivalent of Godwinning and is an automatic epic FAIL.

I believe Jesus advocated helping people to help themselves.

And the council of adulthood also decrees anyone babbling in internet childspeak also not be taken seriously.

 

[thestrangequark]

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless.

Reality is baseless?

Apparently!

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Your already being "ripped off" to pay for people who cannot afford health care. This has been explained over and over, but when people who can't afford or get access to preventative care go to an emergency room to get emergency treatment and then can't pay the bill... the costs get passed on to everyone else. This is one of the primary reasons why health care in the US costs more per person then any other country in the world.

Bottom line... publicly funded healthcare for everyone is cheaper then what we have in the US now. And the evidence is every single other country with a UHC-type system. If you really cared about not being "ripped off" you should be in favor of the system that would reduce costs... not the system that happens to line up with your pre-established political ideologies.

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless.

Why can't it be used as evidence? Certainly we cannot know exactly how things would work out, the smaller details, but we can know the bigger effects.

It's so sick and sad that people can advocate stealing from others to give to people that can provide for themselves. People should give THEIR money from the heart charitably. Not other people's money.

Again. Taxes are not stealing. And again, you've not provided a practical argument for your position. And if you have charity in your heart, how on earth can you be against UHC?!

Perhaps you're not being ripped off enough to understand my point.

 

[sidious618]

Just because the constitution calls for a military doesn't mean the military isn't still socialist as it stands today. Why does the military keep stealing my money?

You're just not getting the code here, hon.

"Socialism" is wing nut for money being spent on anything you don't approve of. Absurd and expensive wars? That's okay, but spending domestically is socialism.

I knew I was missing something.

 

[thestrangequark]

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless.

Why can't it be used as evidence? Certainly we cannot know exactly how things would work out, the smaller details, but we can know the bigger effects.

It's so sick and sad that people can advocate stealing from others to give to people that can provide for themselves. People should give THEIR money from the heart charitably. Not other people's money.

Again. Taxes are not stealing. And again, you've not provided a practical argument for your position. And if you have charity in your heart, how on earth can you be against UHC?!

Perhaps you're not being ripped off enough to understand my point.

My family had insurance when I was a kid. When I was 12 I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes, spent a few weeks in the hospital, and caused my parents to go bankrupt -- the insurance just didn't cover enough.

I know what it is like to have to check my blood sugar only once a day (as opposed to the 8-10 times I'm supposed to check it), because test strips cost $70 for a box of 50. I know what it's like to live in terror of not being able to afford my insulin. I know what it's like to be dropped from one policy, and denied coverage everywhere else because Type 1 diabetes plus bipolar disorder equal too many pre-existing conditions. I know what it's like to work hard every day, and still barely make ends meet because I was unlucky enough to be born with an incurable auto-immune disease. I have been screwed by this system more than you can imagine.
But even if I hadn't, I'd still be for a public option and, eventually, UHC, because I am a good, moral person; because I believe that everyone deserves an equal chance at life, no matter how wealthy or poor they are.

Taxes do not equal stealing. Christ Himself said that taxes are OK and stealing is not.

Furthermore, the High Council of Internet Discussion Policy (which coincidentally includes Christ) has made the following decree: Anyone who tries to equate taxes with stealing immediately disqualifies himself from the discussion. It is the healthcare discussion equivalent of Godwinning and is an automatic epic FAIL.

I believe Jesus advocated helping people to help themselves.

I cannot think of a better way of helping someone help himself than ensuring he is healthy enough to work hard and prosper for himself, his family, and his country.

And, still, you've not provided a practical argument. I don't blame you, though, it must be hard to think of one seeing as none exist.

 

[Miss Chicken]

One of my friends has worked for more than 20 years as a cleaner. She tehrefore has paid taxes. She has never had children, nor does she drive a car, has never had to get the help from the fire brigrade, or needed help from the police. She hasn't even left Tasmania in the last 20 years. She is also a pacifist.

She has private health insurance on top of making her Medicare payment.

She doesn't consider her money is being stolen from her just because her taxes fund certain things she never uses, She is now 46 years old so it is unlikely she will have children that ever goes to school yet her taxes help fund education. Some of taxes go to fund roads that she will never use etc

If providing taxes for UHC is stealing than using it to educate is stealing as well. Most people are sane enough to realise that educating other people's children indirectly benefits taxpayers without children. I wish that certain people would realise that having a healthier population benefits all of society.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Why can't it be used as evidence? Certainly we cannot know exactly how things would work out, the smaller details, but we can know the bigger effects. Again. Taxes are not stealing. And again, you've not provided a practical argument for your position. And if you have charity in your heart, how on earth can you be against UHC?!

Perhaps you're not being ripped off enough to understand my point.

My family had insurance when I was a kid. When I was 12 I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes, spent a few weeks in the hospital, and caused my parents to go bankrupt -- the insurance just didn't cover enough.

I know what it is like to have to check my blood sugar only once a day (as opposed to the 8-10 times I'm supposed to check it), because test strips cost $70 for a box of 50. I know what it's like to live in terror of not being able to afford my insulin. I know what it's like to be dropped from one policy, and denied coverage everywhere else because Type 1 diabetes plus bipolar disorder equal too many pre-existing conditions. I know what it's like to work hard every day, and still barely make ends meet because I was unlucky enough to be born with an incurable auto-immune disease. I have been screwed by this system more than you can imagine.
But even if I hadn't, I'd still be for a public option and, eventually, UHC, because I am a good, moral person; because I believe that everyone deserves an equal chance at life, no matter how wealthy or poor they are.

Taxes do not equal stealing. Christ Himself said that taxes are OK and stealing is not.

Furthermore, the High Council of Internet Discussion Policy (which coincidentally includes Christ) has made the following decree: Anyone who tries to equate taxes with stealing immediately disqualifies himself from the discussion. It is the healthcare discussion equivalent of Godwinning and is an automatic epic FAIL.

I believe Jesus advocated helping people to help themselves.

I cannot think of a better way of helping someone help himself than ensuring he is healthy enough to work hard and prosper for himself, his family, and his country.

And, still, you've not provided a practical argument. I don't blame you, though, it must be hard to think of one seeing as none exist.

I feel for your plight as a youngster. However, a government takeover of a large percentage of our economy is not the answer. Responsible reform that ensures affordable healthcare for anyone who wants it is. That is an equal opportunity.

And while you may believe yourself to be a moral person, if you take what is not yours I would have to disagree with you.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I do not take what is not mine. I do however pay taxes and benefit from the taxes my countrymen pay. You are still making that ridiculous and false association between taxes and theft. I take it you don't drive on any roads paid for by taxes? You don't rely on the police and military to protect you? You do not benefit from taxes in any way?
Also, is it not shown that competition is healthy for the economy? A public option would provide much needed competition to the insurance companies, promoting competition.

And, still, where is your factual, practical evidence showing that a public option (and possibly UHC, someday, are not the answer). You aver and you aver and you don't back it up. Saying it doesn't make it so.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

^I do not take what is not mine. I do however pay taxes and benefit from the taxes my countrymen pay. You are still making that ridiculous and false association between taxes and theft. I take it you don't drive on any roads paid for by taxes? You don't rely on the police and military to protect you? You do not benefit from taxes in any way?
Also, is it not shown that competition is healthy for the economy? A public option would provide much needed competition to the insurance companies, promoting competition.

And, still, where is your factual, practical evidence showing that a public option (and possibly UHC, someday, are not the answer). You aver and you aver and you don't back it up. Saying it doesn't make it so.

And ripping people off by taxing oppressively over-taxing them is stealing. I suppose if I were a person who felt the world owed me something I might have a different opinion as well. Then again I have self-respect.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I do not take what is not mine. I do however pay taxes and benefit from the taxes my countrymen pay. You are still making that ridiculous and false association between taxes and theft. I take it you don't drive on any roads paid for by taxes? You don't rely on the police and military to protect you? You do not benefit from taxes in any way?
Also, is it not shown that competition is healthy for the economy? A public option would provide much needed competition to the insurance companies, promoting competition.

And, still, where is your factual, practical evidence showing that a public option (and possibly UHC, someday, are not the answer). You aver and you aver and you don't back it up. Saying it doesn't make it so.

And ripping people off by taxing oppressively over-taxing them is stealing.

And why is the line healthcare? Why is it not the public option for flood insurance (which the GOP supported)? Or the hiring of private contractors to fight our wars? Or any other number of questionable purposes to which our taxes are put? Health care would be a legitimate service, not a rip-off.

I suppose if I were a person who felt the world owed me something I might have a different opinion as well. Then again I have self-respect.

Don't presume to know how I feel. I don't feel the world owes me anything, and I work for what I get. I've had to work hard to overcome a lot of crap in my life, and I while I will discuss that fact and acknowledge it's affect on my views, I don't whine about it -- it is from there, and the fact that I hole human life more valuable than money, that I draw my self-respect.

And STILL, no facts to support your ground.