State-run health care

[Crusher Disciple]

and to also ensure that those who have "earned it" don't have to worry about being dropped or ruined when they actually use it.

Yeah, in all the midst of the arguments about the "deadbeats" and "crooks," we're overlooking the people who have jobs with health care and supposedly "earned" that care.

Where's the concern for justice when the insurance companies arbitrarily drop them?

I believe most countries pay less per person than we do on our non-government run healthcare.

If that's the case, sign me up.

Everyone pays for road building and maintenance even if they don't drive. Everyone pays for schools to be funded even if they don't have kids of their own or their children are no longer in school. Everyone pays for national defense even if they mightn't agree with how the forces are deployed. Everyone pays into unemployment insurance (of whatever sort) even though (god willing) they're never unemployed. And on and on and on.

Yep, and your local public library system works that way, too. My taxes pay for the Univ of Texas System, and I'll never go there. But I'd never begrudge the students whose education I'm helping to pay for. I wouldn't have gone to college had others not done the same before me.

Can't remember who warned himself for real, though.

I jumped on Captain Ice's account once when he left the room and waned myself. I was surprised at just how easy it was to do it.

 

[Captain Ice]

^And then turned around and started an MA thread about it too IIRC. With me laughing my ass off the whole time.

I've warned myself before, when I was running MA. So has Timby and SlaveOfSeven. There may have been more.

I don't think SlaveofSeven did, unless you are talking about another incident besides the one when he resigned as a mod. He was going to, but someone else was online and issued it before he got a chance (me ).

 

[Guartho]

Um, the vast majority of people not covered are those that pay little or no taxes. The rest of us generally want reform, but not ANOTHER government trainwreck.

Do you have verifiable numbers for that vast majority or are you just making stuff up again?

Yeah I do. BHO's approval ratings are in the toilet. Need a link?

The president's approval rating neither proves nor disproves that the vast majority of people that are not currently covered pay little or no taxes. That's what you asserted and that's what I asked for verifiable numbers on. Since you tried to derail us into a conversation about the president I'll assume that that "vast majority" was completely fabricated until it's proven otherwise.

 

[the Dagman]

I am all for UHC.

Why?

I'd rather my tax dollars go to helping people stay alive rather than, say for instance, funding a war I don't think we should be fighting. I'd rather my tax dollars went to helping some "deadbeat" get well than buying a rifle to shoot some person of color in the head. I'd rather fund a bail out of a poor man's health than bail out some Wall St. suit who bet on the market and lost.

This is the United States of America. Health care is a human right. No one in this country should be denied proper health care. Not for pre-existing conditions. Not for lack of money. I would rather my country defend me against injury, disease and infection than "defend" me against some boogieman foreigner 10,000 miles away that doesn't know I exist and could give a rat's ass about me, you or anyone else on this forum.

 

[ST-One]

And giving people health insurance isn't "enriching" them.

Giving someone something when they can provide for themselves is indeed enriching them.

So, you are against any form of insurance?

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Yeah, it is still heavily stigmatized here. Mental illness is not considered a "real" medical issue by a startling proportion of the population.

Yes, well thankfully there is only one Tom Cruise.

I'd rather my tax dollars go to helping people stay alive rather than, say for instance, funding a war I don't think we should be fighting. I'd rather my tax dollars went to helping some "deadbeat" get well than buying a rifle to shoot some person of color in the head. I'd rather fund a bail out of a poor man's health than bail out some Wall St. suit who bet on the market and lost.

Completely agree.

I shall quote Dwight D. Eisenhower

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I've warned myself before, when I was running MA.

I protested your warning, because the guy who issued it was clearly on some kind of power trip.

 

[Squiggy]

It's a sign of mad power when the only people left to warn are themselves. Jack-booted thuggery!

 

[Warped9]

It's "I've got mine, fuck the rest of you."

Yes. And boiled down this is the heart of the protest argument from much of the right. And fear mongering has convinced the rest that someone (the government and undeserving "others") are just out to steal from them.

 

[Guartho]

I should also mention that getting health insurance for myself was delayed by a year due to an unexpected tax burden, so if I'd been on a public plan for the last year I sure as hell would've been paying for it.

 

[Crash]

Yes. And boiled down this is the heart of the protest argument from much of the right. And fear mongering has convinced the rest that someone (the government and undeserving "others") are just out to steal from them.

Welcome to the Objectivist current of the American right. Seriously, there seems to be a not so insignificant portion of the conservative movement who believe all taxation is theft, period.

Honestly, I don't know what their end game is. Probably not the anarchy they seem to be advocating, though.

 

[Gertch]

You forgot:

Department of Energy
Department of Defense

Our socialist military, socialist Police and Fire emergency services. But yet, healthcare makes the country "Socialist"

Ummm, what's socialist about me paying a fee to a company that hires people to provide me with a service?
The only thing socialist there are the unions. I feel public employees should not be legally able to form or join unions.

Healthcare is socialist because you are stealing money through taxes from those that produce to provide for those that do not. Healthcare is not a right.

A military to protect the people is a called for in the Constitution and is not socialist.

Do you know "why" the Postman only rings twice?

Socialism.

Yes, and they lost something like $18B last year. Guess socialism is working well. Time for them to go away as private industry has proven itself to do a better job for a better price.

It's sad that some Americans actually think socialism is a viable option. I'm glad the majority don't think that way or we would really have lost our way.

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science. We must make sure the current packages don't pass.

 

[Pingfah]

You forgot:

Department of Energy
Department of Defense

Our socialist military, socialist Police and Fire emergency services. But yet, healthcare makes the country "Socialist"

Ummm, what's socialist about me paying a fee to a company that hires people to provide me with a service?
The only thing socialist there are the unions. I feel public employees should not be legally able to form or join unions.

Healthcare is socialist because you are stealing money through taxes from those that produce to provide for those that do not. Healthcare is not a right.

A military to protect the people is a called for in the Constitution and is not socialist.

What nonsense, the military, police and fire services also provide for people who don't pay their taxes. What a ridiculous argument.

And when it's something you agree with it's a fee, but when you don't like it it's a tax. Feckin' Hilarious

 

[thestrangequark]

Healthcare is not a right.

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

If you are speaking of constitutional rights consider that the great thing about our constitution is that it is amendable. If the people want to make health care a right, we can do so -- just as was done with voting for women and black men, for example. I believe that our constitution is outdated in this specific regard, and could well be updated. I also think that this is the ONLY humane, decent, and civilized opinion.

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science.

Prove it. All the evidence I've seen shows the exact opposite.

 

[Arrqh]

I'm glad the majority don't think that way or we would really have lost our way.

I think this thread has proved pretty conclusively that you're not really aware what the majority actually think.

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science.

Given that you think that injecting harmful silver into people is a valid medical alternative, you using the word "science" is pretty ironic.

 

[Guartho]

stealing money through taxes

Whew-boy... taxes≠stealing. This hyperbolic and inaccurate oversimplification alone invalidates your entire post.

 

[sidious618]

Just because the constitution calls for a military doesn't mean the military isn't still socialist as it stands today. Why does the military keep stealing my money?

 

[Crash]

Seriously, there seems to be a not so insignificant portion of the conservative movement who believe all taxation is theft, period.

Healthcare is socialist because you are stealing money through taxes from those that produce to provide for those that do not.

Wow. Exihibit A, folks.

 

[Crash]

Just because the constitution calls for a military doesn't mean the military isn't still socialist as it stands today. Why does the military keep stealing my money?

You're just not getting the code here, hon.

"Socialism" is wing nut for money being spent on anything you don't approve of. Absurd and expensive wars? That's okay, but spending domestically is socialism.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Ummm, what's socialist about me paying a fee to a company that hires people to provide me with a service?

Uh, and how it is different from health care? You pay your taxes and you can go to your hospital without having paying a bill? How is different from paying taxes and having the police or fire brigade coming to your house?

The only thing socialist there are the unions. I feel public employees should not be legally able to form or join unions.

This is nutty territory, old man.

Healthcare is socialist because you are stealing money through taxes from those that produce to provide for those that do not. Healthcare is not a right.

Debatable. And again, how it is different from the police? Or do you think that police officers do not come when called by poor people?

A military to protect the people is a called for in the Constitution and is not socialist.

And the Constitution can't establish socialist policies by definition? I don't think you know the meaning of the word...

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science.

Yeah. Settled science.