State-run health care

[Guartho]

"Blessed are the poor..."

"Hey there Jesus, watch that. I'm not paying for their lazy asses to have basic health care."

 

[Roger Wilco]

I assumed, TLS was talking about people who don't work as much as they could. Of course everybody who works a full-time job should have insurance no matter what.

 

[Shaytan]

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

It's often the case with social rights : it lets people who don't deserve it to make a profit from it but you can't deprive those who need it because some won't play the game.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

This post made my day. A little bit because the thought of you coming here to check out pwnage of which you heard is awesome, but mostly because your account of changing your mind is really moving, and heartening. This doesn't have to be an issue mired in partisanship, scare tactics, and hate. Because ultimately this is a human issue -- and anyone with a measure of humanity and an open mind, once educated on the reality of the health care tragedy as it stands and on what a public option would really entail, would realize that it would be good for the people and good for the country.

Who exactly is hated?

Seriously? You don't see the hatred and fear-mongering? Bear in mind that I didn't, and won't accuse one party (or political leaning); both sides are guilty.

And please explain without the silly internet speak.

Chill. This is the internet after all. Where else can one use the term pwnd? And you still never addressed the data. Sorry, but America needs, wants, and will get a public option -- whatever form it takes at its inception is unknown, will likely be weak, and will be far from ideal, but it will be a start.

I see political ideologies being promoted from many sides. If that's what you're talking about then I agree with your point.

I also think there will be some form of public option. If you give undeserving people something for nothing they will take it if they have no morals or ethics. Unfortunately, there are far too many people like that around. Like this lady for instance.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

 

[TheLonelySquire]

"Blessed are the poor..."

"Hey there Jesus, watch that. I'm not paying for their lazy asses to have basic health care."

I don't believe He advocated stealing from one person to enrich another. I believe He DID advocate helping one's fellow man of our own accord however.

 

[Squiggy]

"Blessed are the poor..."

"Hey there Jesus, watch that. I'm not paying for their lazy asses to have basic health care."

I don't believe He advocated stealing from one person to enrich another. I believe He DID advocate helping one's fellow man of our own accord however.

"Render unto Caesar..."

 

[Miss Chicken]

Collecting taxes is not stealing.

 

[Roger Wilco]

And giving people health insurance isn't "enriching" them.

 

[Guartho]

Stealing from one person? What does that have to do with publicly funded health care? Or do you believe the roads you drive on or the school you went to were stolen? What about the stolen tank you drove when you served in the armed forces?

Let's also not forget that God voted for Obama.

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

 

[Trippy]

"One can get non-elective surgery done much quicker at private hospital whereas those relying on Medicare usually have a wait for non-urgent surgery."

Well, that answers rhetoric about people supposedly languishing on waiting lists for months having to wait for a procedure.

Canadian here. I, nor any of my family members (5 who've had cancer and survived including my parents) have EVER had to wait for any surgery. Never.

It totally blows my mind that there is opposition to Universal Health Care in America. Blows my mind.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

Not free. It would be paid for by their tax dollars. And the system would be one that would be answerable to those same taxpayers, not shareholders who are only motivated by profit margins.

Canadian here. I, nor any of my family members (5 who've had cancer and survived including my parents) have EVER had to wait for any surgery. Never.

It totally blows my mind that there is opposition to Universal Health Care in America. Blows my mind.

Rhetoric. The whole "you'll have to wait MONTHS for a life saving procedure!!!" line leaves out that the months long wait will be for non essential elective procedures as Miss Chicken pointed out earlier in the thread.

 

[Pingfah]

Now, I suggest you answer the fucking question.

Hi, you must be new here, i'm Pingfah.

 

[RyanKCR]

Insurance is not the only thing that can help him. People can.

We tried it your way once. Historians call that period in our history the Gilded Age. It was filled with anarchists throwing bombs, presidential assassinations, REAL socialists and communists, starving families, squalid conditions, street violence, and the military gunning down striking workers.

Basically, a fucked up shithole of a country. And charity, which is exactly what was advocated at the time, didn't even come close to stemming the tide of poverty, disease, starvation, anger, and all the social ills that come with the reality of living under such conditions.

Now, I suggest you answer the fucking question.

What money did you send to help that boy?

"Blessed are the poor..."

"Hey there Jesus, watch that. I'm not paying for their lazy asses to have basic health care."

Tell me where in that passage does it say to tax from the rich and give it to the poor?
Also I'll ask you: What money did you send to help that boy?

 

[Pingfah]

See?

 

[Trippy]

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

Not free. It would be paid for by their tax dollars. And the system would be one that would be answerable to those same taxpayers, not shareholders who are only motivated by profit margins.

Canadian here. I, nor any of my family members (5 who've had cancer and survived including my parents) have EVER had to wait for any surgery. Never.

It totally blows my mind that there is opposition to Universal Health Care in America. Blows my mind.

Rhetoric. The whole "you'll have to wait MONTHS for a life saving procedure!!!" line leaves out that the months long wait will be for non essential elective procedures as Miss Chicken pointed out earlier in the thread.

Non-electives do not wait for months here! Case in point--teacher/librarian needs hip replacement. Non-elective. She books it 6 weeks in advance so it coincides with the semester turn-around. She takes the semester off to heal.

Same school. Computers teacher has knee surgery. Non-elective. He booked his for over the summer so he'd be back to work in September (he actually had to take 6 weeks further off as he didn't heal as fast as he'd thought).

So in MY experience, and those of people I know...there IS no agonizing wait for surgeries. Not here in Ontario anyway.

 

[Miss Chicken]

^^^ There is a wait for things like knee replacements in Australia though I think that this is partly due to shortages of doctors.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

Not free. It would be paid for by their tax dollars. And the system would be one that would be answerable to those same taxpayers, not shareholders who are only motivated by profit margins.

Canadian here. I, nor any of my family members (5 who've had cancer and survived including my parents) have EVER had to wait for any surgery. Never.

It totally blows my mind that there is opposition to Universal Health Care in America. Blows my mind.

Rhetoric. The whole "you'll have to wait MONTHS for a life saving procedure!!!" line leaves out that the months long wait will be for non essential elective procedures as Miss Chicken pointed out earlier in the thread.

Non-electives do not wait for months here! Case in point--teacher/librarian needs hip replacement. Non-elective. She books it 6 weeks in advance so it coincides with the semester turn-around. She takes the semester off to heal.

Same school. Computers teacher has knee surgery. Non-elective. He booked his for over the summer so he'd be back to work in September (he actually had to take 6 weeks further off as he didn't heal as fast as he'd thought).

So in MY experience, and those of people I know...there IS no agonizing wait for surgeries. Not here in Ontario anyway.

^^^ There is a wait for things like knee replacements in Australia though I think that this is partly due to shortages of doctors.

...and there I was in the AL saying that nobody reads my posts in this thread.

I love you 2.

 

[MarianLH]

The fact that you can't differentiate between real reform (which would help this child) and a power grab designed to limit our freedoms is very telling. But to each his own.

It is true that the current proposals in the US Congress don't go nearly far enough, so in a way I guess it's not "real" reform. But it's better than nothing.

I'd also like to know how it's "a power grab designed to limit our freedoms". And don't repeat the so-often-refuted lies about rationing, or being forced to change plans or doctors.



Marian

 

[TheLonelySquire]

And giving people health insurance isn't "enriching" them.

Giving someone something when they can provide for themselves is indeed enriching them.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

Not free. It would be paid for by their tax dollars. And the system would be one that would be answerable to those same taxpayers, not shareholders who are only motivated by profit margins.

Canadian here. I, nor any of my family members (5 who've had cancer and survived including my parents) have EVER had to wait for any surgery. Never.

It totally blows my mind that there is opposition to Universal Health Care in America. Blows my mind.

Rhetoric. The whole "you'll have to wait MONTHS for a life saving procedure!!!" line leaves out that the months long wait will be for non essential elective procedures as Miss Chicken pointed out earlier in the thread.

Um, the vast majority of people not covered are those that pay little or no taxes. The rest of us generally want reform, but not ANOTHER government trainwreck.