State-run health care

[John Picard]

The US Health and Human Services Secretary declared H1N1 a serious problem and yet the US Government cannot get enough of the vaccine to the population. They are literally rationing it.

Yeah, I want these imbeciles, regardless of political affiliation or ideology, running Health Care.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Little pre-programmed socialist zombies...your idiot college professors have done well.

The half of the US population that DOES NOT WANT forced universal healthcare (of which I am a part!) will have the last laugh. This thing (power grab and unconstitutional abuse of power) is D.O.A. in the senate...and if not, they'll have to contend with the people.

Discussion closed (at least for me).

Why not back up your claims instead of leaving the discussion?

Still waiting for you to back up your claims. Perhaps you could start with this claim:

It is ILLEGAL to refuse healthcare to anyone. Doctors cannot and do NOT refuse care.

Oh, and please leave the personal attacks out of your reply.

 

[Sky]

So much of the opinion of Europeans towards the US is based on pure jealousy as well as resentment of the fact that were it not for the US protecting your butts all these years, you'd all be under either German or Russian domination.

Go on, go on... I haven't laughed so hard since the time I heard the American tourist on the ICE train in Düsseldorf.. "If it weren't for us Americans, you'd all speak German now.." All the people around him were coughing and he just could not figure out why.

 

[Shaytan]

Oh..and people DO come here from Europe and around the world (Including world leaders!) in fact because we have the BEST doctors in the world. In fact, we have the greatest specialists in the world for cancer, heart...you name it!

Does the name DeBakey ring a bell? That's just one example...

So, that THAT!

So much of the opinion of Europeans towards the US is based on pure jealousy as well as resentment of the fact that were it not for the US protecting your butts all these years, you'd all be under either German or Russian domination.

Yeah. Uh-huh. I said it.

I am the Kirk to your Organians -- except you aren't energy beings or nearly as cool as Organians.

Oh, and you edited your post to add that ?
It's too beautiful to be true, you should try TNZ !

 

[cultcross]

The US Health and Human Services Secretary declared H1N1 a serious problem and yet the US Government cannot get enough of the vaccine to the population. They are literally rationing it.

Yeah, I want these imbeciles, regardless of political affiliation or ideology, running Health Care.

What? There are limited supplies of vaccine because it takes time to produce. It is private companies producing it, you realise? And they simpyl aren't able to produce 300 million+ doses at the drop of a hat, it's only been ready to go for about a month. So vaccine is rationed to the most at risk which stocks will allow.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Go on, go on... I haven't laughed so hard since the time I heard the American tourist on the ICE train in Düsseldorf.. "If it weren't for us Americans, you'd all speak German now.." All the people around him were coughing and he just could not figure out why.

Priceless.

 

[QuasarVM]

The US Health and Human Services Secretary declared H1N1 a serious problem and yet the US Government cannot get enough of the vaccine to the population. They are literally rationing it.

Yeah, I want these imbeciles, regardless of political affiliation or ideology, running Health Care.

Perfect. However, that won't stop the little socialists from handing every aspect of their lives over to the government. They are eager to do so! "Oh please! Lord Obama! Please fill my car with gasoline...pay my mortgage...and make those evil doctors and insurance companies take care of me! I'll do whatever you say!"

And really...you Euro-snobs...I really don't have anything more to say to you because a.) you aren't deciding whether or not America becomes enslaved by socialists and b.) you can't participate in any system in the US anyway.

So, what you have to say on this subject means zip, zero, nada.

The only thing more I can say to you is that I wish to God almighty Obama was running the show over THERE rather than here.

You deserve him and his policies far more than the American people do...well, at least half the population.

 

[RoJoHen]

The US Health and Human Services Secretary declared H1N1 a serious problem and yet the US Government cannot get enough of the vaccine to the population. They are literally rationing it.

Yeah, I want these imbeciles, regardless of political affiliation or ideology, running Health Care.

Perfect. However, that won't stop the little socialists from handing every aspect of their lives over to the government. They are eager to do so!

Who the hell do you actually think you're talking about here?

 

[QuasarVM]

Go on, go on... I haven't laughed so hard since the time I heard the American tourist on the ICE train in Düsseldorf.. "If it weren't for us Americans, you'd all speak German now.." All the people around him were coughing and he just could not figure out why.

Priceless.

Yeah! That is!

Too bad that's NOT what *I* was saying...

 

[QuasarVM]

Oh..and people DO come here from Europe and around the world (Including world leaders!) in fact because we have the BEST doctors in the world. In fact, we have the greatest specialists in the world for cancer, heart...you name it!

Does the name DeBakey ring a bell? That's just one example...

So, that THAT!

So much of the opinion of Europeans towards the US is based on pure jealousy as well as resentment of the fact that were it not for the US protecting your butts all these years, you'd all be under either German or Russian domination.

Yeah. Uh-huh. I said it.

I am the Kirk to your Organians -- except you aren't energy beings or nearly as cool as Organians.

Oh, and you edited your post to add that ?
It's too beautiful to be true, you should try TNZ !

Yes I did oh great Euro-enlightened Madamoisele! I know I am only a mere American peasant who can only aspire to the "greatness" of France...but yes...I do try.

 

[Arrqh]

And really...you Euro-snobs...I really don't have anything more to say to you because a.) you aren't deciding whether or not America becomes enslaved by socialists and b.) you can't participate in any system in the US anyway.

Yeah. People who live in countries where everyone has access to healthcare are completely useless in discussion on healthcare in the US. I mean, why would we want to actually compare and contrast different systems to see how we can improve things in the US? It's much better to just cover our eyes and ears and pretend that those millions of people who are unable to get any sort of coverage don't exist... and to pretend that the US isn't ranked significantly below many other countries in terms of quality of life and standards of care. It's infinitely better to ignore reality in favor of political ideologies!

 

[RJDiogenes]

The US Health and Human Services Secretary declared H1N1 a serious problem and yet the US Government cannot get enough of the vaccine to the population. They are literally rationing it.

Yeah, I want these imbeciles, regardless of political affiliation or ideology, running Health Care.

Perfect. However, that won't stop the little socialists from handing every aspect of their lives over to the government. They are eager to do so! "Oh please! Lord Obama! Please fill my car with gasoline...pay my mortgage...and make those evil doctors and insurance companies take care of me! I'll do whatever you say!"

And really...you Euro-snobs...I really don't have anything more to say to you because a.) you aren't deciding whether or not America becomes enslaved by socialists and b.) you can't participate in any system in the US anyway.

So, what you have to say on this subject means zip, zero, nada.

The only thing more I can say to you is that I wish to God almighty Obama was running the show over THERE rather than here.

You deserve him and his policies far more than the American people do...well, at least half the population.

Warning for Trolling. Comments to PM.

This Thread has been cautioned several times already. Shape up or take it to TNZ. That goes for everybody.

 

[Squiggy]

The government can't even effectively run a Washington DC cafeteria.

Mainly because they're all run by outside contractors.

We did a poll in TNZ - over 100 respondents later, guess how many people voted for 'i live in a country with UHC and I don't like it'? Go on, guess.


Zero.

TNZ poll results have no business in this forum.

And let's reel in the bluster, people.

Fine...

There was an online poll somewhere with over 100 respondents, guess how many people voted for 'i live in a country with UHC and I don't like it'? Go on, guess.

ZERO!

 

[TheBrew]

The government can't even effectively run a Washington DC cafeteria.

Mainly because they're all run by outside contractors.

I think the one at Walter Reed is government-run (at least I have seen people in Uniform work there) and I like the food there.

 

[SPOCKED]

TNZ poll results have no business in this forum.

And let's reel in the bluster, people.

Fine...

There was an online poll somewhere with over 100 respondents, guess how many people voted for 'i live in a country with UHC and I don't like it'? Go on, guess.

ZERO!

There, see how easy that was.

 

[Warped9]

Reading over these posts I've had certain suspicions confirmed.

1. People take 2nd and 3rd hand things they've heard and still somehow manage to accept them as fact. They accept their preconceptions and propaganda about countries beyond the U.S. as gospel and don't seem willing to consider for even a moment that what they think they know could be in error and that they haven't heard the whole truth.

2. Many in the U.S. really don't get what socialism is. They certainly think that ultimate socialism is an inevitable result of any socialized program introduced into a democracy. Indeed they're convinced (incorrectly) that any socialized programs will inevitably lead to pure statist and dictatorial communism. They cannot seem to grasp that democracy, socialized programs and capitalism can and do coexist in the real world in many countries. Indeed do they even realize that capitalism and communism can coexist as it does in present day China?

Those of us who live in democratic countries with socialized programs have no more interest in having the government tell us what to do than Americans do. In fact we have vigorous debates all the time about how far governments are allowed to be involved in our individual lives. It's a constant, never ending balancing act.

Of course we bitch about things in our country. It's the nature of human beings to bitch about what we see as flaws in our society. People bitch about too much government intrusion and regulation and people bitch about the lack of governmental intrusion and regulation regarding a broad range of issues.

Socialized medicine is a recognition that government does play an important role in the quality of its citizens' lives. Government has a role in social policy if it is to seriously consider itself an instrument of a truly fair and just society. It is an attempt, not so much to level the playing field, but more to ensure that the poorest and least able of its citizens are not callously cast aside and forgotten while a society's benefits are not the sole province of only the powerful and affluent.

Socialized medicine does not preclude or exclude private funded medicine. It is a supplement for those who otherwise cannot afford private funded care.

Government is an instrument of a society to manage a nation's concerns. A just government concerns itself with serving all its citizens and not just the ones who are affluent and influential.

Before the depression of the 1930s Canada was very much like the U.S. and our government of the day wasn't much interested in getting involved in social policies. But citizen pressure forced the government to acknowledge and accept that it had to have a role in social policy. And I think most Canadians believe that we are far better for it today even with the things we still argue and debate about.

Americans already have socialist policies that they mightn't even think about and accept without hesitation. Many of those policies and programs were likely vigorously opposed when first discussed and introduced. The current health care reform debate is no different. In the long run your country will be better for it even though it won't be perfect. And many of the exaggerated fears will prove unfounded.

 

[Middle Earther]

Reading over these posts I've had certain suspicions confirmed.

1. People take 2nd and 3rd hand things they've heard and still somehow manage to accept them as fact. They accept their preconceptions and propaganda about countries beyond the U.S. as gospel and don't seem willing to consider for even a moment that what they think they know could be in error and that they haven't heard the whole truth.

2. Many in the U.S. really don't get what socialism is. They certainly think that ultimate socialism is an inevitable result of any socialized program introduced into a democracy. Indeed they're convinced (incorrectly) that any socialized programs will inevitably lead to pure statist and dictatorial communism. They cannot seem to grasp that democracy, socialized programs and capitalism can and do coexist in the real world in many countries. Indeed do they even realize that capitalism and communism can coexist as it does in present day China?

Those of us who live in democratic countries with socialized programs have no more interest in having the government tell us what to do than Americans do. In fact we have vigorous debates all the time about how far governments are allowed to be involved in our individual lives. It's a constant, never ending balancing act.

Of course we bitch about things in our country. It's the nature of human beings to bitch about what we see as flaws in our society. People bitch about too much government intrusion and regulation and people bitch about the lack of governmental intrusion and regulation regarding a broad range of issues.

Socialized medicine is a recognition that government does play an important role in the quality of its citizens' lives. Government has a role in social policy if it is to seriously consider itself an instrument of a truly fair and just society. It is an attempt, not so much to level the playing field, but more to ensure that the poorest and least able of its citizens are not callously cast aside and forgotten while a society's benefits are not the sole province of only the powerful and affluent.

Socialized medicine does not preclude or exclude private funded medicine. It is a supplement for those who otherwise cannot afford private funded care.

Government is an instrument of a society to manage a nation's concerns. A just government concerns itself with serving all its citizens and not just the ones who are affluent and influential.

Before the depression of the 1930s Canada was very much like the U.S. and our government of the day wasn't much interested in getting involved in social policies. But citizen pressure forced the government to acknowledge and accept that it had to have a role in social policy. And I think most Canadians believe that we are far better for it today even with the things we still argue and debate about.

Americans already have socialist policies that they mightn't even think about and accept without hesitation. Many of those policies and programs were likely vigorously opposed when first discussed and introduced. The current health care reform debate is no different. In the long run your country will be better for it even though it won't be perfect. And many of the exaggerated fears will prove unfounded.

QFT! I will add that, as an American who now lives in Canada, I have experienced both systems. Canada is the better of the two - no contest.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

As someone who deals with the business end of health insurance companies on a daily basis, the notion that they somehow do a better job than the government could is utterly laughable.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

BTW Mental healthcare in the US sucks

 

[Robert Maxwell]

BTW Mental healthcare in the US sucks

Yeah, it is still heavily stigmatized here. Mental illness is not considered a "real" medical issue by a startling proportion of the population.