State-run health care

[Deranged Nasat]

Preach on my brother! Make em get out and work and pull their weight. All this gimme gimme stuff comes at a HEFTY price.

The price of freedom.

Why is it that Americans insist they are the country with "freedoms" when their worldview seems to be "serve the state, but never, under any circumstances, let the state serve you back"? Sorry to bring up an old topic of mine, but in the USA all young men must register for a military draft or face punishment (even if the draft isn't actually active). So the state demands service from them, all of them, but refuses to look out for their health if they are poor, suffer unforseen disaster, etc. How is that "freedom"? Can you please explain how you are more "free" than I, because as always I'm simply not seeing it.

You're talking about Selective Service...yes, that's registration but it's not enforced as we have no draft. We have an all volunteer force.

It's not that anyone is against letting the government "serve us" as you put it...they do, in fact -- Postal, Military, Food Stamps, Unemployment...

But, it's not serving when they say "Buy our healthcare or be fined. And if you don't pay the fine -- go to prison!".

That's oppression...and that's what the want to do. The government is to serve the people and obey the will of the people (through elections, referendums, etc.) -- not vice versa.

Government is not a problem...it's government run amok that is problematic. It shouldn't be entangled in every aspect of our lives.

So "sign up to the selective service or be fined/imprisoned" is okay, but "sign up to let us give you health care" isn't? And you really see this as the government serving the people and not vice versa?

 

[QuasarVM]

Nah...there won't BE any private insurance. They'll make sure of that. That's what they want to do -- put businesses out of business.

You know...those "evil and greedy" companies that just take advantage of the poor peasants and intentionally withhold health insurance from so they will die of some horrible disease without pity.

But, it'll be good to have Der Kommissar telling you you can't eat that twinkie you want because you'll be putting a burden on the government system.

Oh...and Harry Knowles might as well give it up now...they're going to force people to lose weight under Der Kommissar's system. Or they'll fine him for every pound they deem "over the government recommended limit".

Alles Klar Der Kommissar?

LMAO!!!

Seriously, there's no more comment needed.

Well if you can't handle the truth Madamoisele, then I think that's best, yes...oui, oui!!

 

[QuasarVM]

Why is it that Americans insist they are the country with "freedoms" when their worldview seems to be "serve the state, but never, under any circumstances, let the state serve you back"? Sorry to bring up an old topic of mine, but in the USA all young men must register for a military draft or face punishment (even if the draft isn't actually active). So the state demands service from them, all of them, but refuses to look out for their health if they are poor, suffer unforseen disaster, etc. How is that "freedom"? Can you please explain how you are more "free" than I, because as always I'm simply not seeing it.

You're talking about Selective Service...yes, that's registration but it's not enforced as we have no draft. We have an all volunteer force.

It's not that anyone is against letting the government "serve us" as you put it...they do, in fact -- Postal, Military, Food Stamps, Unemployment...

But, it's not serving when they say "Buy our healthcare or be fined. And if you don't pay the fine -- go to prison!".

That's oppression...and that's what the want to do. The government is to serve the people and obey the will of the people (through elections, referendums, etc.) -- not vice versa.

Government is not a problem...it's government run amok that is problematic. It shouldn't be entangled in every aspect of our lives.

So "sign up to the selective service or be fined/imprisoned" is okay, but "sign up to let us give you health care" isn't? And you really see this as the government serving the people and not vice versa?

They don't really enforce it. I don't know a single person that has been fined or imprisoned for that. Highly doubtful they would be...it's more likely that would happen to them for being a "wingnut"...

 

[Shaytan]

Well if you can't handle the truth Madamoisele, then I think that's best, yes...oui, oui!!

1st : there's no need to use French words when you speak to because you're misspelling them and I'm perfectly able to understand English.

2nd : you're far from telling the truth.

 

[QuasarVM]

Well if you can't handle the truth Madamoisele, then I think that's best, yes...oui, oui!!

1st : there's no need to use French words when you speak to because you're misspelling them and I'm perfectly able to understand English.

2nd : you're far from telling the truth.

Excuse me? Do you live here? No. So you know about as much about the American political scene as I do about the French one...which is to say: not much.

But, I suspect you wouldn't accept or recognize the truth if it was powdering your nose.

 

[QuasarVM]

Well if you can't handle the truth Madamoisele, then I think that's best, yes...oui, oui!!

1st : there's no need to use French words when you speak to because you're misspelling them and I'm perfectly able to understand English.

2nd : you're far from telling the truth.

Excuse me? Do you live here? No. So you know about as much about the American political scene as I do about the French one...which is to say: not much.

But, I suspect you wouldn't accept or recognize the truth if it was powdering your nose.

Humor me...you think I am lieing about the fines and forced acceptance of UHC as proposed by the socialists in Washington DC?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You don't know what that song is really about, do you?

Sure I do...Kommissar is a police chief...or commissioner.

I know what the word means, I mean the actual SONG. Do you know what IT is about? Hint: It's not about commissars.

 

[Roger Wilco]

which is to say: not much.

Well, that's obvious.
But you're wrong about everything else.

 

[Shaytan]

Excuse me? Do you live here? No. So you know about as much about the American political scene as I do about the French one...which is to say: not much.

But apparently you think you know enough about Europe to write that :

Believe me...if the socialist system worked then why are there so many people bitching about it over in "Euro-topia" and Canada (you doubt me on this?!) -- and leaving there to come to the US to get care? True, not many can do that -- so, I guess the rest take their chances and hope and pray they get the care they need before they die in "Euro-topia".

And that, that's a lie.

But, I suspect you wouldn't accept or recognize the truth if it was powdering your nose.

 

[QuasarVM]

You don't know what that song is really about, do you?

Sure I do...Kommissar is a police chief...or commissioner.

I know what the word means, I mean the actual SONG. Do you know what IT is about? Hint: It's not about commissars.

I wasn't trying to draw a complete parallel between the song and this topic...but go ahead and enlighten me -- what is the song about?

 

[QuasarVM]

Excuse me? Do you live here? No. So you know about as much about the American political scene as I do about the French one...which is to say: not much.

But apparently you think you know enough about Europe to write that :

Believe me...if the socialist system worked then why are there so many people bitching about it over in "Euro-topia" and Canada (you doubt me on this?!) -- and leaving there to come to the US to get care? True, not many can do that -- so, I guess the rest take their chances and hope and pray they get the care they need before they die in "Euro-topia".

And that, that's a lie.

But, I suspect you wouldn't accept or recognize the truth if it was powdering your nose.

How is that a lie? It's based on the testimonials of those who have experienced the failings of the Euro-system of UHC.

Are you telling me those people who gave the testimonials are lieing?

If so, that's between you and them. Also, I know people personally who have made the same claims about your pristine and flawless collectivism healthcare.

So, don't shoot the messenger (although I know you'd surrender before shooting...LOL!!!)...I am telling you what I have seen and heard. If you can't accept that...ce la vie!

 

[Shaytan]

How is that a lie? It's based on the testimonials of those who have experienced the failings of the Euro-system of UHC.

There is nothing like an Euro-system of UHC. There is no unity in Europe about that. Every countries have their own system.

Are you telling me those people who gave the testimonials are lieing?

I'm not telling that. But seriously, I don't know a single French citizen who would travel to the USA for treatment. Especially when we have high quality treatments all paid by our health care.

If so, that's between you and them. Also, I know people personally who have made the same claims about your pristine and flawless collectivism healthcare.

The French healthcare system is not based on collectivism. Actually, it's very individual.

So, don't shoot the messenger (although I know you'd surrender before shooting...LOL!!!)

And you tell me that on Armistice day ? Wow !

 

[cultcross]

I find it amusing that the only 'testimonials' of Europeans that count are the ones that agree with his point of view. None of the Europeans disagreeing with him here are given nearly so much weight.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sure I do...Kommissar is a police chief...or commissioner.

I know what the word means, I mean the actual SONG. Do you know what IT is about? Hint: It's not about commissars.

I wasn't trying to draw a complete parallel between the song and this topic...but go ahead and enlighten me -- what is the song about?

Drugs.

 

[QuasarVM]

I find it amusing that the only 'testimonials' of Europeans that count are the ones that agree with his point of view. None of the Europeans disagreeing with him here are given nearly so much weight.

Hey, excuse me, but it seems to me we have a double standard here. It seems ok to believe that Americans let people die without universal healthcare but it's NOT OK to take the actual words of Europeans who say your nations' system(s) (notice I used the PLURAL form) suck.

Why is that? Who is molding their beliefs based on the facts they choose to believe here? Seems some of you are just as "guilty" of that as I.

 

[QuasarVM]

And you tell me that on Armistice day ? Wow !

I would tell you that on ANY day...and I would do so based on historical FACT.

Oh..and people DO come here from Europe and around the world (Including world leaders!) in fact because we have the BEST doctors in the world. In fact, we have the greatest specialists in the world for cancer, heart...you name it!

Does the name DeBakey ring a bell? That's just one example...

So, that THAT!

So much of the opinion of Europeans towards the US is based on pure jealousy as well as resentment of the fact that were it not for the US protecting your butts all these years, you'd all be under either German or Russian domination.

Yeah. Uh-huh. I said it.

I am the Kirk to your Organians -- except you aren't energy beings or nearly as cool as Organians.

 

[Shaytan]

I would tell you that on ANY day...and I would do so based on historical FACT.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Excuse me? Do you live here? No. So you know about as much about the American political scene as I do about the French one...which is to say: not much.

You would be surprised how much Europeans know about the US politics, due to the ubiquitousness of American news, entertainment, etc. Your knowledge of European politics and society, on the other hand, is very inaccurate.

Oh..and people DO come here from Europe and around the world (Including world leaders!) in fact because we have the BEST doctors in the world. In fact, we have the greatest specialists in the world for cancer, heart...you name it!

The US have many good doctors, that's true. For those that can buy their services. For the others? Not much.

I am the Kirk to your Organians -- except you aren't energy beings or nearly as cool as Organians.

How old are you? You mentioned having kids in the other thread, but this behaviour (not to mention the overabundance of LOL!!!) is straight out of kindergarten.

 

[siskokid888]

The apologists for the profit mongers operate under the idea that if a government run entity does not function PERFECTLY, then it is useless. Of course, all private run entities run flawlessly, as our current situation shows. As for the Europeans that supposedly "hate" their system, ask them this - would they rather have their system or:

a) Healthcare that regularly bankrupts the people that need it

b) No healthcare at all.

Like we have in the good ole US of A. We have plenty of wealthy insurance company CEO's, though, so I guess its a wash.

 

[cultcross]

I find it amusing that the only 'testimonials' of Europeans that count are the ones that agree with his point of view. None of the Europeans disagreeing with him here are given nearly so much weight.

Hey, excuse me, but it seems to me we have a double standard here. It seems ok to believe that Americans let people die without universal healthcare but it's NOT OK to take the actual words of Europeans who say your nations' system(s) (notice I used the PLURAL form) suck.

Why is that? Who is molding their beliefs based on the facts they choose to believe here? Seems some of you are just as "guilty" of that as I.

Here's a thought: maybe I'm basing my opinion of my system on both my experience of it (as I have lived in it my entire life) and the experiences of those I've known in this country during that time?

It has been demonstrated countless times that Americans most certainly do let people die because of poor healthcare provision for the poor, and even forgetting the death aspect, hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, are one bad illness from bankruptcy. Your insurance provider if you're lucky enough to have one is perfectly entitled to drop you for any reason they fancy whenever they fancy, can completely dictate the treatment they will pay for, and can demand expensive payments from you for all manner of aspects of it.
The face of 'freedom'.