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Starship Platform Lifespans

In Universe explanations are kinda all over the map.
After Utopia Planitia got fire bombed, it was said that starship production was severely damaged, and even took the warp engines off the Luna class Titan for the Titanprise. yet theirs over a 100 Inquiry class ships in Picard S1 finale. and the Enterprise F, which seems perfectly flyable in the Parade in S3 is mothballed, if there is a shortage, then refitting and repairing ships should be more the norm than just building new stuff, so which one is it??

But yeah, a 50 year run with minor and major refits should be the norm for star ships.
 
And why were there not more ships like the Franklin anywhere whether in museums or as personal craft out of starfleet service?

I really liked that design too. One of my favourites along side the NX01
 
An actual technology demonstrator is usually pretty useless for anything else. A Gloster E/28/39, the British tech demonstrator for jet aircraft, could never be turned into a fighter. There was just no provision for many essential pieces of equipment, like a radio, guns, or cockpit heaters. It was built to do one thing and one thing only: figure out how to make a jet engine fly.

As for a prototype: well, the lead ship of every new class is always a prototype. It's a new way of assembling things; there will always be lesson to learn and places to improve. If a ship class gets abandoned after one or two ships, sure, the entire class could be considered prototypes. But a non Galaxy-class ship isn't going to be a prototype for the Galaxies except in the most general way.

I broadly agree with what you're saying, of course, since it's in general terms the same as what I was saying. But I think it makes more sense to conceptualise each ship as something that was intended to be fully capable and functional - which tech demonstrators and even prototypes often are not. Perhaps a better metaphore is the dreadnought-type battleship, as seen in the Royal Navy:

HMS Dreadnought is a class of one, built to prove the concept worked (so fits with your idea, Tim,) but also built to be an actual functional warship, and she did fight in WW1.

She was followed by the Bellerophons, a class of three. These are broadly similar to Dreadnought, and in Trek model terms would be like the TSFS Excelsior vs the TUC Excelsior, so we here would probably lump these together into a group of four as a single class.

Then there are three St. Vincents, one Neptune, and two Collossi, before things settle into the second generation Orions and King George Vs. In each case, the ships were intended to be actual ships of the line, serving as any battleship did - but each is also a slight change in design, a tweak of ideas, an experiment to see "will this work better." Thus the RN entered WW1 with something like 7 different classes of battleships, which in Trek terms would have 4 or 5 different physical models (the other classes being minor variations on a single filming model).

This is, of course, quibbling about semantics. But isn't that what we do here? Anyway, this has definitely entertained me while I wait for food to cook, and I hope it's entertained you too!

And to carry it forward to lifespan of a ship class. None of those early Dreadnoughts would survive very long after WW1 was over. They were overtaken by new technology and concepts within a handful of years after construction.

Contrast that with the old HMS Victory - launched in 1765 (straight to "Ordinary" reserve - brought out in the American War of Independence) and served (with refits) for over 50 years.

Iron reinforced construction and steam power being what finally put her out of service. She was simply too small (and old) to serve in the line of battle.
 
And to carry it forward to lifespan of a ship class. None of those early Dreadnoughts would survive very long after WW1 was over. They were overtaken by new technology and concepts within a handful of years after construction.

Contrast that with the old HMS Victory - launched in 1765 (straight to "Ordinary" reserve - brought out in the American War of Independence) and served (with refits) for over 50 years.

Iron reinforced construction and steam power being what finally put her out of service. She was simply too small (and old) to serve in the line of battle.
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Some Times there are serious changes & improvements in fundamental materials that are "Game Changers" for Ship Design & Construction.

The Gap in Steel Armor from WW2 to more modern AR-500 Type Steel Armor built in 2010 should give you an idea of how large the performance gap is.
 
Wood construction - Iron reinforced - Iron construction - Iron clad (sometimes wood structure or iron) - various mixes of Iron and steel with wood backings and then various alloys and treatment processes for steel construction and armor....

Yep - and I can see similar changes in starships rendering old designs functionally obsolete within 20-30 years if there is a major game-changer.

"The Cage" pilot mentioned the "Time Barrier" being broken sometime after the S.S. Columbia was lost in the Talos star group. The implication being that the newer ships are MUCH faster than the old Columbia would have been. That would be a game-changer in the mid-23rd century.
 
One might guess that a mix of technological and experience from the Dominion War, plus the return of the USS Voyager from the Delta Quadrant would have been a massive change to what Starfleet could do verses the Galaxy era starships. Lots of new technologies brought back by Voyager. Plus a lot of practical combat experience from the war to show what works and what can be a detriment to a starship in a crisis or over a long term crisis. They likely already had questions about the Galaxy-class after the loss of USS Enterprise to a single old Klingon warship. Add the technological challenges needed to overcome Dominion weapons, and you will get new starships by the 2380s.
 
They likely already had questions about the Galaxy-class after the loss of USS Enterprise to a single old Klingon warship.
That should've changed StarFleet's posture on internal security along with scanning items that come back from in the field for malware and leaking of info.

There's a old saying "Loose Lips Sinks Ships".

Well, Geordi's VISOR got turned into Loose Lips and leaked critical Shield Harmonic Frequencies to the enemy in real time.

If the Enterprise-D's security team did a proper sweep of Geordi's VISOR functionality after he was returned from capture, the info wouldn't have been leaked and StarFleet wouldn't have to pay such a heavy price by losing the FlagShip of the Federation to a Bird of Prey that is older than a Century.

That should force a Dramatic Op-Sec SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) change moving foreward in time when it comes to how to handle Security Sweeps when recovering crew, hostages, etc.
 
and the Enterprise F, which seems perfectly flyable in the Parade in S3 is mothballed, if there is a shortage, then refitting and repairing ships should be more the norm than just building new stuff, so which one is it??

But yeah, a 50 year run with minor and major refits should be the norm for star ships.
This is another point that sort of throws me off. The Enterprise-F, 2 generations more advanced than the Enterprise-D, which itself was only a 35 year-old design, is being mothballed??

It brings me back to my confusion that the Constitution-refit Enterprise was being mothballed in TSFS. The major refit had only taken place less than a decade prior.
 
This is another point that sort of throws me off. The Enterprise-F, 2 generations more advanced than the Enterprise-D, which itself was only a 35 year-old design, is being mothballed??

It brings me back to my confusion that the Constitution-refit Enterprise was being mothballed in TSFS. The major refit had only taken place less than a decade prior.
Well, perhaps we're all making bad assumptions about how long a starship's service life is actually expected to be? We know that Excelsior, Miranda, and Oberth type hulls were used over a very long time frame, but we don't know how long individual ships remained in service.

Given the on-screen evidence, we appear to be in a place where Kirk's Enterprise, despite a mid-life refit, is worn out after twenty years and Picard's after 35. That's actually a massive increase in longevity. This does put the Enterprise-F at the low end with a service of only 15 years, but perhaps she had a hard life, or perhaps there was some unexpected design flaw. Or perhaps she too would've made it to 20 if she'd been rebuilt at the ten year mark.

This doesn't directly speak to the question of "why are there only 3 hull types between the movies and TNG and then a gazillion by late TNG and early DS9," but does suggest to me that there's a level of consistency here: an individual starship's useful life is typically one to three decades. We can all headcanon longer lives if we want to, and we can compare to airplanes and RL ships if we want to, but the PIC writing team seems to me to have accepted the line in TSFS as a baseline, and we should all scale our expectations accordingly. We might think it seems weird, but it seems to be the way the setting is working.
 
The reason why the Excelsior, Miranda, Oberth, Klingon BoP and the K'T'inga had such long lifespans was because the producers were cheap and wanted to use existing assets for a show that took place 70 years in the future. The TMP Enterprise would have been added to that list as well if Greg Jein hadn't built a new model for the Stargazer. And if there had been a Romulan ship built for the movies, we would have seen that as the TNG Romulan ship instead of the Warbird.

There's no logical reason why, in-universe, those ships lasted so long. Even with technological advances over time, there would come a point where the spaceframes would not look completely identical to how they looked 70 years before.

The inherent problem was that there was no forethought about that huge gap in time between the 2290s and the 2360s, what kind of ships would have been constructed during that time, or what uniform variations would have been introduced. Because as has been stated, everything taking place after 2360 had all kinds of change. Yet that 70 year gap had an almost complete lack of change, both to the ships and to the uniforms; the only outlier being the Ambassador class Enterprise-C, which seems to be its own thing design-lineage wise. Plus, we are informed that the Federation was involved in several wars during that time, the most prominent being the Cardassian War. You don't fight a major war with outdated ships & tech...or at the least, new ships & tech would have come out of that war (which might have been the case as to why the design lineage changed in the 2350s to the more Galaxy-like designs, but there was no indication that they were originally built as warships.)

To be fair, Michael Okuda did try to rectify this issue a bit by creating several conjectural starship classes for the Encyclopedia whose registry numbers denoted that they were from this 'Lost Era' (Antares class 1XXXX, Apollo class 1XXXX, Hokule'a class 1XXXX, Wambundu class 2XXXX, Surak class 3XXXX, Istanbul class 3XXXX, Merced class 3XXXX, Mediterranean class 4XXXX, Renaissance class 4XXXX.)

Also, based on what we see in DS9, the Federation still has not mass-produced many new designs, the bulk of the fleets consisting of Excelsior and Miranda class ships. This is quite unbelievable (the reason, as before, being the lack of contemporary studio models available for scanning into a CGI model.)

By the time of the PIC era (at least in season 2), we see that Starfleet has finally become much more diverse in their contemporary ship classes (and the use of older ships built before the 2350s seems to have been eliminated, which was a huge plot point for season 3), but we also get nonsensical information such as brand-new ships only lasting for a few years before getting decommissioned over trivial issues.

And if there was a future production that took place during that 70 year gap in time, at this point it would not really be representative of the era, since all Trek productions from CBS/Paramount+ tend to all look alike, with no real design characteristics of any particular era (see Section 31.) So instead of seeing ships that resemble the Ambassador class, we would probably get just more Eaves-inspired schlock like the DSC season 1 ships.
 
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The Enterprise-F was stated to have some sort of non-repairable computer problem that compromised the ship. She was probably fine for flight, but either her computer could no longer fulfill her missions, or she would be too easily exploited by and border rivals. She would need a massive overhaul I suspect, and to track down and replace everything will take years.
 
The Enterprise-F was stated to have some sort of non-repairable computer problem that compromised the ship. She was probably fine for flight, but either her computer could no longer fulfill her missions, or she would be too easily exploited by and border rivals. She would need a massive overhaul I suspect, and to track down and replace everything will take years.

Where was that stated?
 
Where was that stated?
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-F)

Star Trek: Picard Logs
The Star Trek: Picard Logs had it stated that the Enterprise-F was launched in 2386, and had been commanded by several captains over the course of her fifteen years in service. The ship's critical systems were severely compromised during the Monfette Gambit (β), a rescue effort for Raillian refugees on Fenton IV (β). It was therefore that the Enterprise-F was scheduled for an early decommission. [4]
 
That information is not canon. The only thing that was shown on screen was a display stating that the ship was slated for early decommission, but no info as to why.
 
That information is not canon. The only thing that was shown on screen was a display stating that the ship was slated for early decommission, but no info as to why.
It was part of Officially Sanctioned & Released Social Media info in conjunction with Picard S3.

If you don't want to accept that, that's fine, that's your Perogative.

But that's where the origins of the info come from.
 
It was part of Officially Sanctioned & Released Social Media info in conjunction with Picard S3.

If you don't want to accept that, that's fine, that's your Perogative.

But that's where the origins of the info come from.

And people are welcome to accept it as well. As far as I’m concerned, it’s nonsensical gibberish that wasn’t seen or mentioned on screen and can be easily ignored. And since the only reason why the ship existed in the first place was for it to be destroyed on Frontier Day, there was no real reason why they needed it to be decommissioned. Another stupid idea from Lord Terry.
 
It just says "Critical Systems" Never said which system. It went and attacked Starbase 1 and stuff, so it apparently still works to a point.

Plus the E was Wreaked at the end of Nemisis.. yet was rebuilt.

Lets take the Original 1701.
Built in 2245
Refit in 2271
Destroyed 2285.
So 40 years old.

1701 A
Say it was a Re commision of an older Connie, and lets say 2250 for an original commision
2275 or so Refit
2286 Refit/ recom to Enterprise A
2293 Decom.
43 years or so
 
There’s also 48 years between the commissioning of the Enterprise-B (2296) and the destruction of the Enterprise-C (2344). We can do all sorts of math for that, but if we assume that there was a relatively equal amount of time that both ships were in service, that gives each ship about 24 years. Or, either the Ent-B was destroyed early on and the C had most of that 48 year service life, or the opposite (Ent-B survived until 2342 or so and Ent-C was only a few years old when it was destroyed.)
 
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Remember in ST:PRO, the USS ProtoStar had a Alien System Virus / Malware that wasn't easily defeat-able and could easily transmit to other StarFleet ships.

We all know how they solved the problem if you watched the show.

What if there was some sort of Malware that wouldn't be easily remove-able or defeat-able unless you took extreme measures like decommissioning the vessel.

Who knows what the Monfette Gambit did to the vessel.

Alien Malware might not just be "Lines of Code", but could be something more intrusive, physical, or difficult to defeat.

We saw what Iconian Malware did to the USS Yamato.

Who knows what other kinds of Alien Malware is out there.
 
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