Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[Tuskin38]

On a board that has threads hundreds of posts long, flogging every topic to death? Oh please, you're making me hoarse with laughter.

So here's the scoop:

Considering the number of ships and limited space and time to show them, its a wonder anything can really be gleaned, but after asking around with a few questions myself and looking at some more evidence (as well as checking a few more angles of the ships), here is what I think we can settle on:

We are being told from sources there are at least 2 types that made it on screen out of the 3 originally planned, whether these are both clear, I do NOT know for sure. I still can only see one type for certain.

What is certain is there at LEAST 3 variations, confirmed from two angles, one of which I highlighted earlier in this thread, I can't see more though that doesn't mean they didn't throw a few harder to see nacelle variations in the background./QUOTE]

One ship design with two nacelle designs. That's all that appeared on screen and in the battle, that's all the Star Trek Online team was given art references for by CBS.

Three designs were approved for the episode but only one was made, with 2 different types of nacelles.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Precisely.

 

[RAMA]

Wow, she's fast becoming one of my favorites. These are closer to the beauty shots we might expect if we get a close up.

RAMA

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFFHgCDFuST/?igshid=6bqa5op8xdr2

 

[RAMA]

Yes, the team was only given 2 of the 3 we know about.

RAMA

One ship design with two nacelle designs. That's all that appeared on screen and in the battle, that's all the Star Trek Online team was given art references for by CBS.

Three designs were approved for the episode but only one was made, with 2 different types of nacelles.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yes, the team was only given 2 of the 3 we know about.

They were given one one ship with two different nacelle types.

Chabon has given us the description of all 3 designs. None of the ships in the battle match the descriptions of the other two.

One design is meant to have 2 prongs coming out of the front of the saucer, and the third is supposed to be ring like with holes in it.

None of the ships in that fleet match those descriptions.

 

[Timo]

Looking forward to seeing those at some point of the second season, then. It's a real shame they couldn't finish even one additional design for Riker to flagship with. Or, say, put four pylons and nacelles on his personal ride. Or six.

It's nice to have a show that's light on Starfleet starships for a change, though. This made it easier to breathe in DS9, too - and when a starship did appear, it was all the more an event.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Wow, she's fast becoming one of my favorites. These are closer to the beauty shots we might expect if we get a close up.

RAMA

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFFHgCDFuST/?igshid=6bqa5op8xdr2

Not alot of windows so I assume this is the replacement for Akira or Defiant which would make sense for a rapid reaction force. It's not a terrible design but not one that will stick with me still nice to see some good hi-res shots

 

[Dukhat]

Yes, the team was only given 2 of the 3 we know about.

For someone who claims he's right all the time, you're not on this point.

They were given one one ship with two different nacelle types.

Chabon has given us the description of all 3 designs. None of the ships in the battle match the descriptions of the other two.

One design is meant to have 2 prongs coming out of the front of the saucer, and the third is supposed to be ring like with holes in it.

None of the ships in that fleet match those descriptions.

Exactly.

Looking forward to seeing those at some point of the second season, then.

Unfortunately we don't know if those other designs even got past the concept art stage. If no CGI models were made for them, then we probably won't see them since they now have the Equity class to use for any generic guest starship (unless they plan to show the Enterprise in season 2).

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

they now have the Equity class to use for any generic guest starship

It's the new Excelsior

 

[137th Gebirg]

About time. I always felt maintaining the same design for 100+ years seemed a bit of a stretch, especially since it applied to Excelsiors, Mirandas AND Oberths, all into the 24th century. Understandable from budgetary considerations back in the day of physical filming miniatures. Not so much, these days.

 

[Dukhat]

I for one hope never to see a Miranda, Oberth or Excelsior ever again. And there's really no reason for that anyway, since by this time, unless there's a specific in-story reason why we'd need to see them, they would be completely anachronistic at this point. It would be like seeing TOS Connies on active duty during TNG.

 

[137th Gebirg]

We'll probably see something along those lines in the upcoming Nick series "Prodigy", featuring some kids resurrecting an old derelict SF ship, or possibly some more Mariner flashbacks in LDS (to their credit, they used an Olympic at DS9 for the last one, confirming that class' existence in the unaltered prime universe timeline). But yeah, I can't think of any other reason it would be necessary.

 

[Dukhat]

We'll probably see something along those lines in the upcoming Nick series "Prodigy", featuring some kids resurrecting an old derelict SF ship, or possibly some more Mariner flashbacks in LDS (to their credit, they used an Olympic at DS9 for the last one, confirming that class' existence in the unaltered prime universe timeline). But yeah, I can't think of any other reason it would be necessary.

That flashback was fine, as the Olympic class was contemporary to that era. As for Prodigy, I'm still hoping that the ship those kids find is the Enterprise-A, just so we know what her ultimate fate is (unless 'Prodigy' is the actual name of the ship they find.) But at this point, we don't even know what time period Prodigy is set in, so it could literally be anything.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Good point. I would love to see the E-A again too, but I fear that may tread a little too deeply in the "small universe" end of the pool.

Then again, that's never stopped them before from inserting some other improbable cross-overs in franchise history, so why the hell not?

 

[Timo]

I for one hope never to see a Miranda, Oberth or Excelsior ever again. And there's really no reason for that anyway, since by this time, unless there's a specific in-story reason why we'd need to see them, they would be completely anachronistic at this point. It would be like seeing TOS Connies on active duty during TNG.

That's just it, though - TNG established that anachronisms are a feature of Starfleet. It's about as unexpected as seeing the B-52 soldier on, but that doesn't make it unreal. Or any more unreal than the rest of Trek, FWIW.

We might think this would go away as the practical constraints for showing an all-new fleet disappear with CGI. Yet DSC carries on the good tradition: we get a menagerie of designs that might well hail from a broad range of past decades, and indeed are handed hints that the prominent hero vessels would be anachronisms in their own context, too (and this before the time travel stuff kicks in). We thus get a couple of datapoints on how anachronistic exactly a ship design is allowed to be - but, alas, nowhere near enough data to let us judge whether or not we should expect a Miranda or an Oberth in the early 2400s.

Of the other shows, only PIC and LDS are free of the previous practical reasons for recycling old models, and indeed have so far dodged showing such, except as in-universe references to past days. VOY could afford to do new ships but happily also showed old ones, befitting the TNG/DS9 era timeframe. But given the choices made in DSC, I don't think we can really make good predictions of, say, SNW or PRO or even the later seasons of PIC and LDS in this respect.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

That's just it, though - TNG established that anachronisms are a feature of Starfleet. It's about as unexpected as seeing the B-52 soldier on, but that doesn't make it unreal. Or any more unreal than the rest of Trek, FWIW.

DSC carries on the good tradition: we get a menagerie of designs that might well hail from a broad range of past decades, and indeed are handed hints that the prominent hero vessels would be anachronisms in their own context, too (and this before the time travel stuff kicks in). We thus get a couple of datapoints on how anachronistic exactly a ship design is allowed to be - but, alas, nowhere near enough data to let us judge whether or not we should expect a Miranda or an Oberth in the early 2400s.

Of the other shows, only PIC and LDS are free of the previous practical reasons for recycling old models, and indeed have so far dodged showing such, except as in-universe references to past days. VOY could afford to do new ships but happily also showed old ones, befitting the TNG/DS9 era timeframe. But given the choices made in DSC, I don't think we can really make good predictions of, say, SNW or PRO or even the later seasons of PIC and LDS in this respect.

While all of that is true in an in-universe perspective, the fact of the matter is that the IRL reason why we saw older ships was because the budgets and time constraints at the time necessitated the use of them. Not anymore. In this day and age, like I said before: unless there's a specific story reason why we'd need to see a Miranda (i.e. a flashback to TWOK, a la 'Ephraim & Dot' for instance), I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any.

 

[Timo]

And yet we get DSC, where "old" ships such as the Shenzhou are up front and center, and even the background ships are deliberately designed with "chronological diversity" in mind (the box nacelle degree notwithstanding). The "specific story reason" thus isn't time travel or flashback: apparently, it's simply creating a certain atmosphere.

LDS is doing the opposite, showing era-appropriate designs and only those, with zero diversity so far. TAS did the same before that. Yet LDS/TAS and DSC/PIC/SNW/PRO/S31/??? have the very same freedom with design, the freedom from pieces of plastic accumulating dust on shelves. And they still can take the opposite tacks when it comes to showing what this fictional Starfleet is like. This even before they get stuck with CGI models gathering dust in the servers (the real-world reason for the Shenzhou serving on)!

So, the in-universe universe can and well might remain as it was, and be portrayed as it was. (And any display of diversity automatically overrules any display of lack thereof, because the sum total of the two amounts to diversity in the end...)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The difference between the B-52 and the odd Excelsior class is, the B-52 itself is actually 55-65 years old depending on the build date. New engines and systems, but the airframe would be that old.

The Excelsior class design is 100 years old, but made with latter day materials and with "current" systems, it can be a brand new ship in every way except the design.

If it does whatever job it was built to do, no need to replace it.

 

[Dukhat]

But exactly how old is the Shenzhou? Is it 25 years old? 50? 75? 100? We’re never told. Whereas the Miranda, Oberth, and Excelsior classes are definitely anywhere between 70 and 100 years old or more during the TNG era. So unless someone mentions the specific age of those DSC ships in dialogue, they’re not a valid comparison. And registry numbers aren’t helpful either, since the older Shenzhou’s is higher than the newer Discovery’s.

 

[Gonzo]

It ends up being about the limitations of the design itself, Excelsior class ships that are in service can continue to be useful in times of peace but in times of war they have skeleton crews and are used to screen the bigger more advanced ships, it was especially important due to the Jem'Hadar's kamikaze tactics against larger ships.

It would not surprise me if most of the existing Excelsior class ships were destroyed or wrecked in the Dominion war, attrition rates for older hull designs go way up in war time.

Ultimately they are used as Cannon Fodder to soak up damage and draw enemy fire, hence the term Destroyer Screens.

After any major war it is pretty standard procedure to have a clear out of any remaining legacy platforms, no matter if it is air/sea/land or in this case space (although there can be exceptions if there is no viable alternative).

The phasing out of Battleships after WW2 is an extreme example, they didn't just mothball certain classes, the whole idea of the Big Gun Battleship was pretty much retired due to the rise of the Submarine, Carrier and Air Power, interesting to note that they still need Destroyer Screens though even today.

We can see this in Picard with the rise of Carrier ships and large mass produced fleets of the same basic hull design, so that they are all capable of similar high warp speeds (transwarp/slipstream) with no slower ships holding up the rest, an understandable reaction by Starfleet to the Dominions tactics.

In some ways it was the Defiant class that started it as a response to the Borg, small fast ship that packs a big punch for its size, quicker to build and with a much smaller crew.