Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by pst, Jan 9, 2020.
They don’t fit because they look nothing like 24th century designs.
As with all things Trek ... Until now.
I'm very slowly adjusting to the fact that nothing before the 'Kurtzman Era' will ever look the same again.
(but it is a struggle)
You know, the Federation is only about 10 years out from the Dominion War, when the attack on Mars happens. Seems highly believable, to me at least, that they needed to rebuild their fleet numbers incredibly quick, and so went back to some old designs that would presumably be a lot easier to build in bulk in the late 2300's than they were in the 2200's.
As for 15 years later on Picard, if we see Discovery ships there too, the same explanation works. Especially if Starfleet lost a huge amount of resources in the attack on Mars all those years before, from building facilities, resources, actual engineers to build, etc.
The Miranda, Oberth, and Excelsior classes are only about 20-30 years younger than Discovery ships, and they're everywhere in TNG. No reason why these can't be too.
Actually I’ve always felt that the DSC ships would have fit better post-TUC rather than pre-TOS. Technically that would be the 24th century, but at the start of it, not the latter half of it.
we're all here bending ourselves into pretzels trying to justify the use of those ships in "children of mars", the fact is they shouldn't have used the shots if they couldn't do them right. it's 2020 and every franchise - including this new brand of trek - is trying to create a coherent world that's distinct and makes sense. unfortunately this pointlessly undermines that. it makes no sense and is a really bad foot to get off on, from a world building and production standpoint. i'm not talking about the content itself, which is fine, i'm talking about the care and attention to detail they're putting in. this is a bad look.
All of the older classes of ships were Starfleet?
It might be that these are rescue ships for the Romulan population from the Hobus supernova evacuation and they're just giving the Romulans super old designs to use for transport/colony ships?
I don't need a justification. It just is. Starfleet uses space frames for 80 to 100+ years. Use of the same frames and designs makes a lot more sense than the constant kitbashes we have gotten over the years.
As for a coherent world I have, thus far, not struggled with understanding the world or the time frame. "Context is for kings."
We know John Eaves is working on this show (and the untitled Nickelodeon cartoon) thanks to his official website. He didn’t work on Season 2 of DSC, so they probably moved him straight to Picard after Season 1 ended.
I wonder if at this point Eaves has been working on (official) Trek longer than most other artists.
He started working on it all the way back during Star Trek 5. He designed the close up models of the Klingon BoP disruptor cannons. He also created an unused design for an Enterprise-A shuttlecraft is I’m remembering correctly. I own his art book, I’ll have to double check.
this is the first glimpse of the 24th century in 17 years (14 counting “these are the voyages”), they needed to re-estasblish the universe in a consistent, thoughtful way. this is simply not that. this is the same kind of cheapo production stuff that gave the franchise a bad name 20 years ago.
Pretty much disagree on every point. If a brief shot of the planet gives the franchise a bad name then the franchise is pretty much doomed no matter what.
You're right. I mean, how frigging hard or expensive could it have been to give us the proper TNG era designs we all love and deserve?
I mean, all they needed to do was take the DSC era digital models and:
1. Turn all the round saucers into ovals
2. Triple the number of windows on them
3. Put stupid looking giant red bubbles in the front end of all the warp nacales
Voila! Instant fan satisfaction regarding the unbelievably important need for representation of TNG era ship designs!
They wouldn't need to make them bigger since DSC ships are ridiculously big to start with.
I know you're being facetious but I've always liked the blue and red lighting of Fed ships. Gives them a unique look.
it’s not the shot specifically, it’s the creative intent behind it. or lack thereof.
i’m glad you can look past it and (as i’ve said in other posts) i hope it’s a hiccup, just a matter of production issues. but i think it’s a bad start to a new chapter in the franchise.
I can't wait for EAS to weigh in on this one. I bet those 4 seconds of spacedock will get 10x the word count of the actual content of the episode
It was a 5 second establishing scene to say 'hey this is a shipyard' in a 6 minute short.
But hey, they could have created a brand new ship just for that scene and people would have still hated it. Because it either, wasn't an excelsior class, didn't follow the design lineage of TNG era ships, was too big, had the wrong warp nacelles etc..
Also has it occurred to anyone, that maybe, just maybe they might just be wanting to keep any new ship designs as a surprise for the fans?
The amount of work that vfx studios do in such a short time is staggering. I have some friends in the industry and I'm always worried about how the unhinged demands of their profession keep them away from their families. Many studios are set up in such a way that makes it impossible for staff to unionize and fight for better working conditions.
With that in mind, I don't give a rats ass if I see a Disco ship for 8 seconds. I know nothing of the time pressures involved in this particular shot, but I wouldn't be surprised if, for example, it was done as fast as possible, late at night, because vfx for another show needed to be started the next day.
This is nothing new either: During the production of Enterprise season 3, the staff had a matter of days to come up with a design and cg model an Enterprise J. Now, I know more about scifi starships than I care to admit, and am also decent cg modeller, but if someone came up to me and said 'Build an Enterprise in two days.', I would struggle. That episode also reused a 24th century Nova class and the fake Starfleet ship Dauntless in a scene depicting the 26th century. Were the vfx guys lazy? No. They were rushed off their feet.
I get it: we're not used to seeing Magees or Disco shuttles in the the 23rd or 24th centuries. I also think that the design of the La Sirena is confusing with a muddled silhouette. This was always going to happen though. Trek has a new, more modern direction, with new people behind the driving wheel and their own take on things. Where it counts for the story, they put the time in, and come up with the gorgeous Discoprise or that Enterprise D hologram. Where it doesn't count for the story, and they're rushed off their feet, they'll use a Magee.
It's only us sad losers who would know what a Magee is anyway.
The Disco ships they used don't look out of place in the TOS era, and we know they were still building new Mirandas and Excelsiors as late as VOY: "Relativity"
They also resemble the awkward-but-awesome FASA kitbashes from their (infamous) Next Generation Officer's Manual.
Although I really think everyone hoping this is a fluke needs to adjust their expectations downwards. Pixmondo are doing the CG for Disco, the Short Treks and Picard (and Orville too! That surprised me seeing how different they look) and they're going to come up with more and more of the same kind of thing.
I think people misunderstand why certain other people have such a problem with this 5 second scene. It’s not because they used two DSC ships in a Short Trek prequel to Picard. It’s because they’re worried that this might be an indicator that Picard itself will constantly use DSC production assets because the production’s logic is just that a ship is a ship, whether it makes sense in the context of the time period or not.
And if their logic is, a ship is a ship, why would they care about keeping things a surprise?
Separate names with a comma.