Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I didn't say I wanted every battle to look like that. I was curious as to the "gotta" or need to update. What is the need there if it works?

I don't find it believable that battles would ever take place at WVR (Within Visual Range) distances. I never did. Battles should be taking place where you would need a Telescope to see your enemy and they would be a speck on your screen if you didn't zoom in.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't find it believable that battles would ever take place at WVR (Within Visual Range) distances. I never did. Battles should be taking place where you would need a Telescope to see your enemy and they would be a speck on your screen if you didn't zoom in.

I don't find it believable either but its a conceit of fiction for unbelievable things to occur

 

[Sci]

There was no thought given in the Picard episode,

There was thought given in the PIC episode. You just don't want to admit it because you don't want to give them credit for anything if you didn't enjoy it.

The TNG sequence, apart from being far more memorable and dramatic, was perfect executed. One lone ship in the Neutral Zone, suddenly comes across two menacing enemies appearing right in front of them... which then are outflanked by three Klingons. It was perfectly executed.

They look like the starship equivalent of two people standing unnaturally close to each other so they both fit into the shot.

Listen, I liked that scene just fine, and it was well-executed! Having the Klingons appear out of nowhere was genuinely thrilling! Having said that, I know I saw that episode at some point within the last year during a TNG rewatch because I remember that scene, but I honestly can't remember which episode it was in without looking it up, and I really can't remember the context of the starship showdown.

Meanwhile -- I was on the edge of my seat for the finale of "Et in Arcadia Ego." It was a nearly-perfect interplay of a tense plot, well-developed characters, and thematic depth. I do wish that the fleet had consisted of more designs, but overall I found the tension and release of that scene utterly compelling. "That's the point: We're here to save each other."

In 20 years you won't remember any of the Picard (or Discovery) space shots, whereas all the shots I posted have stuck in the memory far longer because there's purpose to them, they were deliberately and memorably framed to stick in the mind.

I think we'll remember both of them.

No, I recognise the telltale signs of a substandard starship artist's mediocre work.

You keep trying to pretend "there's no common design lineage" and "I recognize the telltale signs of Eaves's work" aren't contradictory statements, honey.

Meanwhile, I'm amused that John Eaves has seemingly become a target of fandom hate for the sin of working on DIS. I seem to remember fans used to love that guy.

 

[fireproof78]

Meanwhile, I'm amused that John Eaves has seemingly become a target of fandom hate for the sin of working on DIS. I seem to remember fans used to love that guy.

See, that's was before Discovery. After Discovery completely different work.

 

[Kpnuts]

Shame to you, fun for me.

That's been my fan experience since I watched TOS.

Bad writing and bad design making fans fill in the gaps and rescue the situation? If you enjoy that then great! Seems like that's been happening a lot on the Picard board these last couple of months.

Meanwhile -- I was on the edge of my seat for the finale of "Et in Arcadia Ego."

Glad to hear it. Personally I (and it seems many other judging from comments on these message boards) never want to see Akiva Goldsman direct action ever again. It was terrible, that whole "football" scene down on the planet was worse than a fan film. The scene in space had zero tension, especially with Oh delaying firing about seven times for whatever reason + the magic plot device thing making people's wishes come true .

It was a nothing, generic space action scene, when Trek has shown itself to be capable of so, so much better, in every other series.

You keep trying to pretend "there's no common design lineage" and "I recognize the telltale signs of Eaves's work" aren't contradictory statements

There isn't. One has the registry in white, one had it in black, one has it at the front of the saucer, two of them have it on the side.

You keep trying to pretend that me saying that "none of the nacelles look the same, typical Eaves" = "a consistent design language in starship design".

 

[fireproof78]

Bad writing and bad design making fans fill in the gaps and rescue the situation? If you enjoy that then great! Seems like that's been happening a lot on the Picard board these last couple of months.

Been happening since I've been in Trek fandom. So, OK...I guess, it's bad now...?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Unfortunately, we are now fighting against decades of portrayal of fights being like naval and air battles just in space.

Even naval battles since at least WWII, and air warfare in the age of radar and missiles, have been fought BVR. Star Trek's in-your-face combat looks silly by comparison.

Listen, I liked that scene just fine, and it was well-executed! Having the Klingons appear out of nowhere was genuinely thrilling!

Oh yes, "The Defector" is one of my favorite TNG episodes, and when I watched the original airing, I literally jumped out of my chair when the Klingons decloaked.

 

[fireproof78]

Even naval battles since at least WWII, and air warfare in the age of radar and missiles, have been fought BVR. Star Trek's in-your-face combat looks silly by compariosn.

It is very silly.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I don't find it believable either but its a conceit of fiction for unbelievable things to occur

Other Sci-Fi shows have portrayed battles at BVR

B5 did it:

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other shows have as well.

Plenty of Anime have done it.

There's no reason why Star Trek shouldn't do it on the regular.

 

[fireproof78]

Other Sci-Fi shows have portrayed battles at BVR

B5 did it:

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other shows have as well.

Plenty of Anime have done it.

There's no reason why Star Trek shouldn't do it on the regular.

Ok.

 

[Dukhat]

Meanwhile, I'm amused that John Eaves has seemingly become a target of fandom hate for the sin of working on DIS. I seem to remember fans used to love that guy.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that fans 'loved' Eaves. Speaking for myself, I liked his designs for the Enterprise-E and the Dominion ships from DS9. But I started noticing how derivative his work was becoming when he started using the same design elements for ships no matter what race or time period they belonged to. It started with the Son'a fighters, to the Scimitar, to the Romulan BoP from ENT with nacelles that looked like they came right off of a Jem'Hadar fighter from 200 years in the future. So while I don't 'hate' Eaves, my disillusionment with his work came far before DSC.

 

[fireproof78]

There's no reason why Star Trek shouldn't do it on the regular.

No, there's no reason but there's no "go to" there either. I watched the series and while I would have no issue with Trek doing it I don't see it being so incredibly different from what Trek has already done, just over a greater difference.

And honestly, the demand for realism strikes me as odd when I see things that are more realistic being rejected in Trek.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And honestly, the demand for realism strikes me as odd when I see things that are more realistic being rejected in Trek.

Forget realism...how about "more futuristic than what we have now, not less"?

 

[RAMA]

One thing has never changed, even in the era of 4k/HD, and 2:35:1 format: You still want to see all the ships on your screen!! DS9 did it, and so did DSC and Picard!

 

[Gonzo]

Forget realism...how about "more futuristic than what we have now, not less"?

That is a part of the problem, real world technology has moved forward so Star Treks needs to as well, or at the very least appear to, the flat screen wall monitors and PADD's used in Star Trek TNG spring to mind as they are not really futuristic at all anymore.

I think that may be why the show runners introduced holo communications in Discovery to try and push the technology boundary forward a bit more to make up for the real world advances, it didn't really work and so they rowed back on it a bit to better match what we saw in TOS.

Perhaps the show runners decided to play it a bit safer with Picard, moving forward with the idea of Transwarp conduits and Holo crew but keeping the actual ship controls manual.

 

[EnderAKH]

That is a part of the problem, real world technology has moved forward so Star Treks needs to as well, or at the very least appear to, the flat screen wall monitors and PADD's used in Star Trek TNG spring to mind as they are not really futuristic at all anymore.

I think that may be why the show runners introduced holo communications in Discovery to try and push the technology boundary forward a bit more to make up for the real world advances, it didn't really work and so they rowed back on it a bit to better match what we saw in TOS.

Perhaps the show runners decided to play it a bit safer with Picard, moving forward with the idea of Transwarp conduits and Holo crew but keeping the actual ship controls manual.

I've noticed it is one of the ongoing points of tension in fandom: whether Star Trek should continue to be the future from Now, whenever the current show is being made, or it should be the future from 1966 to stay consistent with what has already been presented on screen. I fall in the former camp, but a good number of people here fall in the latter. There is no right answer, and it is one of the many choices a Star Trek series makes that will alienate some group of fans.

 

[Timo]

It should be noted that TOS already had flat-panel displays of immense size, being as "consistent with today" as any bit of predictive fiction out there.

OTOH, there's no good reason to think that any sort of future, be it June 2020 or the late 24th century, would ever adopt transparent freestanding holographic displays. It's a pretty bad prediction, less likely to come true than "they will wear miniskirt uniforms in 2265" (because retro styles are an established thing at least).

So sticking to the 1960s future really ought to cater to both camps here: they did it in a more enduring fashion.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

Star Trek always struck me as being the future of the decade it was made in. TOS feels 60s, TNG feels 80s. Though DS9 and VOY just feel like extensions of TNG.

 

[fireproof78]

I've noticed it is one of the ongoing points of tension in fandom: whether Star Trek should continue to be the future from Now, whenever the current show is being made, or it should be the future from 1966 to stay consistent with what has already been presented on screen. I fall in the former camp, but a good number of people here fall in the latter. There is no right answer, and it is one of the many choices a Star Trek series makes that will alienate some group of fans.

No there is no right answer and certainly is a point of contention. I fall in to the former camp because that was the base conceit of the original show. I don't want Star Trek to continue as it always was. I would like something a little bit new, and respecting updates in technology that humanity currently has.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Solidly in the former camp. Making it some sort of alternative timeline/universe misses the point of Star Trek, IMO.