Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by pst, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Here, There and Everywhere
    Solidly in the former camp. Making it some sort of alternative timeline/universe misses the point of Star Trek, IMO.
     
    burningoil, KennyB and fireproof78 like this.
  2. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    But that's what it is...and that doesn't preclude it making comments as pointed as necessary about the real worlds we live and move in.
    Back to starship design...
     
  3. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    My general feeling is that if you don't interpret Star Trek as always being about our future rather than 1966's future, then Star Trek will become irrelevant and die. It can only survive by being reinterpreted, even at the cost of retconning or contradicting old episodes.
     
    Arpy, Ar-Pharazon and Rahul like this.
  4. Serveaux

    Serveaux American Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Not Dead Yet

    Yes, but the problem there is that almost all of Trek is way outdated in one way or another. You really need to rebuild it from scratch to make it contemporary - at least, if part of what you're trying to do is to portray a possible future rather than a kind of sf-fantasy adventure world.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Which is why I thing a reboot is becoming necessary. There is a reluctance to let go of the 1966's vision of the future, and it has been enshrined to some degree as just Trek's alternate universe. Which, wasn't the point at all.

    I have no issues with retcons but at some point a reboot would be better.
     
  6. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    Abrams already tried a reboot. While I thought it was a reasonably decent attempt, Paramount didn't like the returns and temporarily killed the line (the ViaCom/Paramount/CBS merger gyrations didn't help matters any). Will see what path these next alleged upcoming movies take. I'm not entirely 100% convinced they're going to be in either the Kelvin OR Prime timelines.
     
    saddestmoon and Rahul like this.
  7. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    No, that is not what happened. What happened was, Paramount wanted to continue making them, but at a reduced budget, and they were unable to come to a salary agreement with Chris Pine and Chris Helmsworth. Things are in limbo right now, but it's not that Paramount decided to stop making the "Kelvin Timeline" films because of insufficient returns.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Not a full reboot which is what I would want. Just like TOS Trek looking from the 60s forward (the 90s have a World War, etc) new Trek to look forward from 2020, rather than just reimaging a 60s interpretation of the future.
     
  9. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    I suppose I should have been more clear. According to this 2/10/2019 article from TrekMovie.com, the reduced budgets that Pine and Hemsworth balked at were such because "box office results [were] below studio expectations." It all stemmed from lower returns. Had they received higher revenue from Beyond, the actor budget wouldn't have been as large a consideration and the film would likely have moved forward.

    I just worded my original assertion quite poorly. Apologies... :)
     
    saddestmoon likes this.
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    There is a thread discussing this in the Kelvin universe subforum so I'll be brief. Yes, Beyond did below expectations but Pine didn't return because he already had a contract for the fourth film pre-Beyond and Paramount wouldn't honor it.

    Basically, Paramount fumbled this ball.

    And still not a full reboot.
     
    saddestmoon, Gonzo and 137th Gebirg like this.
  11. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    While I agree a full reboot may be what the franchise needs, I think TPTB would be reluctant to take that nuclear option, for fear of the collective heads of the party-faithful fandom exploding all at once. Insert boycotts, death threats and accusations of childhood rapage here. The creation of the Kelvinverse manufactured enough butthurt for them. Doing a REAL reboot? That would be a total third-rail scenario. They don't have the sand for it.
    Agreed to both.
     
    saddestmoon likes this.
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Oh, I completely agree they don't do it. The fear of the fans is pretty much crippling Hollywood creative decisions because everything thing gets torn apart online nowadays.

    One need only look at the discussion around the new Enterprise look to recognize that when a change is made it will receive backlash.

    ST 09 got backlash because, despite being an alternate timeline, the technology was still considered to be a poor fit for the era.

    Cue "Can't get No (Satisfaction).
     
  13. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Location:
    Somewhere in Connecticut


    Fans might surprise...ourselves. Maybe we'd be more accepting of a full-on reboot that wasn't pretending to take place in the same reality, leaving the classic shows enshrined as they were.
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Here, There and Everywhere
    I don't believe it is or at least that's not what it was intended to be. It should be a look at the future through the lens of today.
     
    fireproof78 likes this.
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Indeed. Not just showing humanity's ills but also potential.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    What role today would portray in that is dubious, though. Nowhere in Trek is the future built on the achievements of today, regardless of the applicable definition of today. In the sixties show, the sixties were but a hurdle mankind had to jump over (without nuking itself) after which the future happened on its own. In the eighties show and its spinoffs, the same. Early spaceflight was not taking mankind to the stars: the fantastic invention of warp did that trick. And no political or cultural achievement paved the way: instead, mankind just wallowed in its self-destructiveness until the pointy-eared aliens came and made everything good.

    Mankind's potential in Trek blooms in a pure fantasy environment, as adjunct to a community of funny aliens and their magical technology. If there is reference to today, it is to contrast it with this fantasy, with the gap of centuries left unspanned.

    In this respect, its all the sillier when mankind suddenly invents plasma screens or transparent monitors 200 years later than in the real world, and treats them as the epitome of cool. Or that it comes up with gender equality or fluidity 300 years later than we did. Every time Trek tries to "modernize" itself, it's actually setting mankind back by centuries - and making it look as if this could not yet have happened back when humans were going it alone, but required alien intervention instead.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    burningoil likes this.
  17. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    reboots are so late 90s/early 00s...
     
    Arpy likes this.
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    That's exactly the relevance. Overcoming current humanity's challenges rather than fantasy humanity overcoming an imaginary war, i.e. WW3. Going back to the base conceit of TOS.
    Hardly. Pretty much been a part of Hollywood since Hollywood's inception.
     
    Nerys Myk likes this.
  19. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Baja?! I haven't got anything in Baja!
    It would probably be easier that way. Can't complain that it contradicts canon if it's a brand new timeline, but I'm sure plenty would still find things to complain about.

    I always suspected that another reason fans were upset over DISCO changing the visual aesthetics is that they find the notion that TOS looks dated pretty offensive, because for whatever reason they take it more personally than they should.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    This is probably more accurate than is given credit for.
     
    burningoil likes this.