Starship design history in light of Discovery

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by INACTIVEUSS Einstein, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except the reference book treats it as official, and the new number too.

    Plus, the proportions are different enough that even if they were the same size, it would not be a plausible refit.
     
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  2. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Which are - you guessed it - non-canon. Eaglemoss can tell me the Runabout exists in a 200m battle-version. That won't make it true either.

    The "common" given size for the Connie is simply a mistake (again - taken from an earlier draft where the ship had half the deck-count), that simply was never corrected, because no one cared enough, and it wasn't official anyway.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since the discussion is about how reference books are to deal with this discrepancy and I cited an existing example. Clearly, they're going to keep insisting the original Enterprise is 289m.

    And again, even if they were the same length, the proportions won't sync up enough for either to be a plausible refit/defit.
     
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  4. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The size of the Enterprise is just a gift that keeps on giving to forum threads across time and space. :biggrin:

    Looked fine to me in the show at around 400-500m long or so especially as the Discovery's length is 1/3 nacelle, some will never be able to deal with it.

    I think it looks and ties in well with what we know of the Enterprise B, which is a similar length but much bulkier.

    The Eaglemoss comparisons between ToS and DSC Enterprise must have looked pretty silly (any chance of a picture anyone?), it's no skin off my nose as I think the larger size is more realistic and everything actually fits.

    For me the only Starfleet ship that looked out of place in DSC was the Shenzou.
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My only issue with the Discoprise's 400-something-meter size is... how they fit all those shuttles and fighters inside:lol:. They had 200 between her and Discovery. The Kelvinprise couldn't fit 100 (more like 20), and her shuttlebay was scaled up on the inside and would only fit a 1200m long ship:shrug:
     
  6. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    Here you go:
    Eaglemoss Star Trek The USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D Illustrated Handbook pages 2.jpg
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    If you are reimagining a famous ship then yes, this is the nature of the beast that if it doesn't continue on, either in film or a show, and distinguish itself from the original then it is forgotten.

    I don't think this is that controversial. :shrug:
     
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  8. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nah it's obvious that they use inflatable technology.

    All that's needed is a good foot pump. :biggrin:
     
  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You could say the same thing about the TOS and Refit at as well.
     
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    TMP is a reboot. Just sayin' ;)
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the Enterprise did have a giant inflatable decoy...
     
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  12. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    It's hard to tell if TAS copied the original Space Battleship Yamato anime series or the other way around. They both aired around the same time initially (1974) and both hero ships kicked out inflatable decoys in one episode. Or maybe it was just one of those coincidental "zeitgeist" moments where children's animation of the day had a thing for spaceship-shaped balloons.
     
  13. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Cheers bud.

    It looks good to me, the size difference between the two versions isn't terrible but the larger size does fit the lineage better, which is understandable as the original was designed in the 60's long before any of the other series so it's no surprise really.

    If we do get a Pike/Enterprise series it's a shame we will never see the Enterprise A, would be interesting to see how they approach it.
     
  14. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    T'Pol was in the Earth Starfleet not Federation Starfleet.
     
  15. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Indeed.
    Disregarding everything else and just focusing on the sizes - The (more realistic) length of the Disco-Enterprise works much better inbetween the NX-01 and the Enterprise C. In fact - The Excelsiour is ridiculously underscaled, with a bridge module and windows just a half deck tall.
    I think the "realistic" size would be - NX-01 and Ent-C stay the same, and TOS and refit to have the size of the DISCO-Enterprise, and the Excelsiour being upscaled comparatively - maybe even a bit longer than the Ent-C, though not as tall and quite obviously having less volume.
     
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  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And if she stayed in the service when the Federation formed, she would have been in the Federation Starfleet.

    But that's besides the point, Spock being the first has never been said on screen anywhere, it isn't canon at all. It's an urban myth. In fact TOS itself contradicts that myth.
     
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  17. Jesse1066

    Jesse1066 Captain Captain

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    Personally, I'm not too concerned with ship sizes. It's not hard to look at the Enterprise in DSC, TOS, and the TOS movies and imagine they're all about the same size, whether that size is 300 meters or nearly 500. Of course, if the Enterprise is scaled up, other ships should be a bit larger as well, particularly Excelsior. Does this bother me? Not a bit. It's all arbitrary anyway. The "official" numbers are still not canon.
     
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  18. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah the B could be upscaled a bit, we never really get to see it much as it was only shown in the film, same with the C really.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if DSC is upsetting too many urban myth apple carts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  20. Spaceship Jo

    Spaceship Jo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's not true. The "common" size was actually quite well thought out by Jefferies and was indeed after the upscale. Shaw has pretty well definitively shown that Jefferies internal plans match the exterior and fit the "common" size, as you say.

    But you are correct that it was never "official" in the "canon is only what's onscreen and doesn't include images on screens onscreen". Which is fine by me.

    Either way, as much as I enjoy the tech manuals, blueprints and all that, I'm quite happy to accept the disparate sizes onscreen as being within the same ballpark of "feel" and I have no issue accepting them in terms of "what's onscreen is the same ship (even if I think it's a lesser - though not unimpressive - version in terms of design).
     
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