Starship design history in light of Discovery

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by INACTIVEUSS Einstein, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, no. The "common" (too short) size comes from these Jefferies' sketches:
    [​IMG]
    In which you clearly can see that the Enterprise was still in the stage where the saucer was only one(!) deck tall. When they built the actual model, they changed the size, by including an additional row of windows on the saucer's edge, making it two decks tall. (Of course the window-size was then off-scale, they are rather large for two decks, but the TMP-refit adjusted that as well with having smaller windows along the saucer and body)

    And again, not really. With two decks in the saucer, the size simply doesn't fit. Here is Doug Drexler's famous cut-away, in which he tried to fit two decks into the saucer and make the shuttlebay as close as possible:

    [​IMG]

    But the thing is - he cheated. The humans in this picture would be midgets, and the decks only ~2m tall, even without the overhead-space that he already ommited for that picture. And the shuttle is somehow even smaller than a single deck.

    The truth simply is - the "common" size doesn't fit. It was envisioned for a ship half the size, that was then upscaled before production to double the size.

    Otherwise, 100% agreed with everything else you wrote here.:techman:
     
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  2. Spaceship Jo

    Spaceship Jo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not going to restate Shaw's entire thread here, but he has shown it to work just fine. Give it a search, it's long but worth it until the thread goes crazy.

    MJ adjusted his drawings to the model's changed windows etc and still made the length work. There's room for argument about how literally you take the set height as deck height or the shuttlebay as forced perspective or not, etc.

    Drexler cheated to fit more. The people aren't only mini, they're also wildly different from each other!

    It's crazy this is still even considered an issue. Shaw closed the book pretty definitively.

    Now if one wants the Big E to be bigger, or for the windows to make more sense, that's fine. The neck and saucer edge in particular are challenges for people who want consistency of window placement, and lots of fan art threads are filled with different solutions. Heck, not everyone even agrees the windows are windows.

    I'll put it this way: facts show me that I need somewhere between zero and one grain of salt to make the TOS Enterprise work... and I need a gallon of salt to make the various Kirk / Pike Enterprises the same ship. I find that gallon easy to swallow, and that zero to one grain isn't even worth mentioning next to that gallon.
     
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  3. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would really like Eaglemoss to release a version of the Jefferies, Classic Enterprise, but in the Discovery ships scale.

    I've got both their TOS and Dicoprise models, but they look woefully UN-comparable next to each other.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. drt

    drt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You could get both of the XL versions.
     
  5. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Discoprise

    Needs.

    Straight.

    Pylons.

    Fuuuuck the TMP styled pylons just look so wrong and bad with those slits in them.
     
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  6. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is the XL TOS Enterprise about the same scale as the Discovery Enterprise?

    Comparing the two of those might work.
    (nope it won't ... the XL-TOS is 11", the XL-DSC Enterprise is 10" and the REG DSC is 8.5")

    OH..., And I just looked it up.
    Not really sure I want to spend $80 dollars on any of them.
    :eek:
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    have you met fans?
     
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  8. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, practically and for the benefit of the 1979 movie audience, yes. In-universe, no. ;)
     
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  9. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It doesn't work 'fine'. Making the smaller size to work requires utterly bizarre assumptions like pretending that the decks are way lower than we obviously see, or that the saucer rim windows not actually being on two different decks, but one large deck inexplicably having two rows of windows. And of course TMP rec deck will never fit in 300m size as depicted, nor will the torpedo room.
     
  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    STO's recreation of the S31 ship

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Now, game mechanics are not an indication of what actually happened on screen, but the S31 ship in STO doesn't cloak, it just has a dark mode that just hides it from sensors, it does have the same hull shimmering effect that we saw in it's first appearance as it was flying into camera view. It's possible it doesn't cloak at all in the show either.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    that was the impression i got from the show, that it was more active camo than actually cloaking.
     
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  13. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  14. Hey Missy

    Hey Missy Captain Captain

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    Discovery's USS Enterprise just reminds me more of how goofy I think the chrome "hot rod" JJPrise is.
     
  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Concept art of the D7 hologram

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Can't wait for Eaglemoss to do a model of this one. Interesting take on the engines. Everything else looks pretty faithful, despite the K'tinga-esque surface details. Hell, anything is better than those season one things so this is definitely a satisfying improvement, IMO.
     
  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just want some official renders of it.

    I noticed in the episode they fired disruptors from the nacelles just like TOS. Though this time there are visible emitters.
     
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  18. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I don’t think we’ve seen many close up images of any of the ships until Polar Lights or Eaglemoss put out models for them. For that matter, same went for the Abramsverse movies. Aside from the Kelvin and Franklin, we still don’t have really good pictures of the secondary ships outside of some fan-made efforts. The lack of official reference material is quite substantial.

    I wish they took a similar stance that the Yamato 2199/2202 show runners did. They know there is a large subset of fans who are into the ships and mechanics and provided the pics accordingly in the form of massive art books. American productions never seemed to take that interest as seriously, despite spending lots of time and money creating all the ships as a part of the world-building.
     
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  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Can't wait to see the other S31 ships up close, even if only as online pics of those gorgeous models I'll never buy.

    It was a cool family of designs, down to the big torpedo and the barely glimpsed shuttlecraft. I doubt we'll see more of any of those later on: DSC seems to have difficulty reusing already existing designs, and I doubt the putative S31 spinoff will do better if it ever materializes. The "primary" ship above might be the one at the focus of that show, or then not. (I'd expect DSC to keep the set and reuse it for its own purposes anyway.)

    In any case, kudos for the designing. Or conversion of "regular" sketches into these wedge things, as it may be. Perhaps that's what happened in-universe, too, with S31 bolting their own stuff to generic starship keels?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Yes. When I watched it first I thought it was de-cloaking. But it's quite obvious it was never actually invisible, but just had a (probably sensor-camouflage) field around it.

    I do wonder why they never used that in the confrontation with the Discovery/Enterprise? Could have been an interesting battle dynamic.

    I love it! Weird engines included. Really, really wish we would have gooten more beauty shots of it in the show.

    Why do they fucking need to leave the 23rd century once they actually got era-appropriate ships?????