Starship design history in light of Discovery
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
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it may have been mentioned but the Kelvin's nacelle rides right under the saucer also. I don't think it's really an issue. some ships don't do it, some do.
Hermes and Saladdin do also.
and the Ptolemy class.
Constellation class nacelles don't overhang the primary hull but they're right next to it, 4 of them.
Hermes and Saladdin do also.
and the Ptolemy class.
Constellation class nacelles don't overhang the primary hull but they're right next to it, 4 of them.
G
Gonzo
Guest
It was always my understanding during ToS and TMP movie era that the nacelles were on pylons for safety reasons, otherwise the pylons are just a weak point to be targetted by enemies.
Perhaps it was also the best location to create a stable warp bubble.
The warp core could be ejected and it stood to reason that the nacelles could be remotely ejected from the pylons, the ship would then use backup power and impulse engines.
Seems a bit stupid to do it just for the look as it sure as hell doesn't improve the handling in space or the aerodynamics when in atmosphere.
Putting the warp coils in standoff nacelles can't be for putting them far away from the crew. After all, even the original ship, the one with the longest pylons, takes great care to put the nacelles as close to the saucer as possible, backpedaling/negating whatever the separation of the secondary hull via a long neck achieves.
Ease of jettison is fine and well for choosing nacelles, of course. It's just that we never see this happen or even attempted. When Kirk (apparently) suggests the thing in "Savage Curtain", we might take it to be in jest, then - that is, an order to do the utmost, similar to "go out and push", rather than an attempt to tell the engineer how he should do his job in technical detail!
Nacelle placement in the DSC ships isn't particularly weird, not in comparison with, say, most of the computer games or RPGs. What DSC really ought to get points for is innovating on bridge placement...
Timo Saloniemi
Ease of jettison is fine and well for choosing nacelles, of course. It's just that we never see this happen or even attempted. When Kirk (apparently) suggests the thing in "Savage Curtain", we might take it to be in jest, then - that is, an order to do the utmost, similar to "go out and push", rather than an attempt to tell the engineer how he should do his job in technical detail!
Nacelle placement in the DSC ships isn't particularly weird, not in comparison with, say, most of the computer games or RPGs. What DSC really ought to get points for is innovating on bridge placement...
Timo Saloniemi
Only the very front of the Nacelles are near the primary hull.
And that particular area is supposedly a collection device, not something that gives off harmful radiation.
I know it's technically not 'canon', but Mr. Jeffery's did say on several occasions that the idea of putting the nacelles on pylons, away from the main body of the ship was indeed to protect the crew.
And for those of us that grew up with the original series only and its Tech Manual, that is what we believed till the TNG era and its less thought out ship designs came along.
And that particular area is supposedly a collection device, not something that gives off harmful radiation.
I know it's technically not 'canon', but Mr. Jeffery's did say on several occasions that the idea of putting the nacelles on pylons, away from the main body of the ship was indeed to protect the crew.
And for those of us that grew up with the original series only and its Tech Manual, that is what we believed till the TNG era and its less thought out ship designs came along.
I don't know if I like the design, for the reasons you state, but I'll give a go at writing fluff:
Magee-Class Armoured Transport
The Magee Class of the 2240s was an unusual starship design, envisioned as an armoured transport/landing platform. This experiment in Starfleet's design history was an anomaly, as future directors of Starfleet's operations generally favoured making this a generalised role with no exclusive class of starship by the 2280s. Due to the need to maintain functional warp capability in combat evacuation, the decision was taken to internalise the warp drive nacelles, a feature almost unheard of in non-civilian Federation designs. Later the few ships of this design were phased out in favour of variants of the Miranda Class, and relegated to civilian roles as cargo vessels or science ships. This decision was taken because the inefficient warp system required more antimatter fuel than comparable sizes of starship. At least one was gifted by Starfleet to the Vulcan Science Academy for studying the coronasphere of stars, where it's armored design could withstand radiation.
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Shepard-Class Heavy Cruiser
In the 23rd Century, the beta-quadrant around the Orion space, was a dangerous somewhat lawless region. Starfleet had to play an active role in enforcing Maritime Commerce Law and keeping the peace. Orion, Elasi and Nausicaan pirate groups operated light cruisers and frigates near the Klingon border, preying on Human and Andorian merchant ships, and occasionally raiding Federation worlds. The Shepard-Class was designed as a capable combat cruiser that could quickly respond to distress signals and patrol colonies along the frontier. Like all Starfleet ships, it also served a dual purpose as a research and humanitarian vessel, aiding lost ships and rescuing alien worlds suffering natural disasters. It was a balanced design, capable of operation independent of a fleet, it's generalised multi-purpose design allowing adaptability to any situation. Aside from the arrival of a Constitution-Class, the arrival of a Shepard-Class starship was the most welcome sight for frontier planets.
Special transport sounds nice for the Magee, given the porthole-free long linear structure of even cross-section in the centerline (good for shuttles aft and supplies front, less so for just lots of shuttles that would then block each other in that tunnel). The nacelles might well be additional bays for their top part, with front and aft openings to the long holds - warp coils could well fit to the bottom half of these rather thick structures.
(The T'Plana-Hath design the class name of which I forget is another one with big boxes, this time ventrally and with prominent doors. Not a direct lander, but perhaps a planetary landing support ship for both assault and research use?)
The Shepard looks generic enough, but perhaps the presence of a secondary hull gives Kirk extra versatility that these designs lack? Might be the Shepard is like the lookalike Loknar, an austere combat platform with a much humbler sensor dish and all...
As for Jeffries' design, I can't agree it would be a good one for protecting the crew from evil nacelles. If the pods are fine aft of the saucer, just bolt them there - don't use stupid back-and-forth support structures! But Jeffries, working from first-it-must-look-good principles, would have known how idiotic aircraft are allowed to look to an automobile or locomotive engineer: there are multiple unintuitive criteria at play, and seeming idiocy can still be plausible and convincing ITRW. The same then certainly holds for fiction...
No doubt radiation protection may be one of the fictional criteria, even if overridden by other concerns. But with an engine tube providing motion along its axis, "right in front" sounds like a very bad place to be. The ships where the tubes enjoy a forward view free of people seem much safer...
Timo Saloniemi
(The T'Plana-Hath design the class name of which I forget is another one with big boxes, this time ventrally and with prominent doors. Not a direct lander, but perhaps a planetary landing support ship for both assault and research use?)
The Shepard looks generic enough, but perhaps the presence of a secondary hull gives Kirk extra versatility that these designs lack? Might be the Shepard is like the lookalike Loknar, an austere combat platform with a much humbler sensor dish and all...
As for Jeffries' design, I can't agree it would be a good one for protecting the crew from evil nacelles. If the pods are fine aft of the saucer, just bolt them there - don't use stupid back-and-forth support structures! But Jeffries, working from first-it-must-look-good principles, would have known how idiotic aircraft are allowed to look to an automobile or locomotive engineer: there are multiple unintuitive criteria at play, and seeming idiocy can still be plausible and convincing ITRW. The same then certainly holds for fiction...
No doubt radiation protection may be one of the fictional criteria, even if overridden by other concerns. But with an engine tube providing motion along its axis, "right in front" sounds like a very bad place to be. The ships where the tubes enjoy a forward view free of people seem much safer...
Timo Saloniemi
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in-universe speculation aside, the eaglemoss magazine released in the last couple weeks has john eaves describing the shepard-class' history: apparently initially intended to fill the role the USS glenn ultimately does in "context is for kings" (then called USS curie), based on earlier sketches of the shenzhou, but also deliberately designed to reflect both the shenzhou and the discovery as well elements of the NX-class and TOS constitution-class.
i appreciate the attempt at creating a lineage, she definitely fills the gap between two fairly disparate designs.
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Here's the story about the design of the U.S.S. KERALA from my copy of the EM booklet that came with the ship.
https://imgur.com/a/8epskEe
(scroll down through the pics to see the text)
https://imgur.com/a/8epskEe
(scroll down through the pics to see the text)
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I really like the design from above, but I don’t like the bottom of the saucer
So from the above, John Eaves theorized (so not canon) that there are round nacelles under the nacelle housings, and that the shape of the nacelles was for the possible integration of the spore drive
He also reiterated again that Fuller was the one who requested non-round nacelles. Hopefully now that he’s gone future designs will look different.
So from the above, John Eaves theorized (so not canon) that there are round nacelles under the nacelle housings, and that the shape of the nacelles was for the possible integration of the spore drive
He also reiterated again that Fuller was the one who requested non-round nacelles. Hopefully now that he’s gone future designs will look different.
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Looks that way. I guess we'll find out eventually. It's nice to see clearer images of the ship. I wish it had been colored differently with more a more subtle aztec pattern but I like the design overall. It's a nice update. The only thing I think they could have added was a soft blue glow behind the saucer.
Is this the real deal or the fan-made model that came out after the last ep aired?
It's a low-poly version made for the Star Trek: Adversaries mobile game, based on the real deal.
As section 31 were introduced as a thing at the end of s1, perhaps the tendency towards square nacelles and a more, shall we say, militaristic feel to later starfleet ships could be explained by s31 having advanced knowledge of T’Kuvma and the impending Klingon war?
It wouldn’t be beyond s31 to sit back and let the Klingons attack - but I’d also expect them to manipulate the starfleet corps of engineers so that starship design start to include things like shielded nacelles - that is, round nacelles inside square housings for extra protection. This might have gone back as far as the design of the class the shenzhou belongs to (although her nacelles look like they come off a jem hadar fighter - maybe they were a really early prototype?)
Either way I’d love it if the “DSC aesthetic” was referenced in-universe as the influence of s31 in the build up to the war (as starfleet can’t possibly have been so clueless as to think a war with the Klingons wasn’t coming. The DSC version of admiral Marcus must have been screaming it from the rooftops)
It wouldn’t be beyond s31 to sit back and let the Klingons attack - but I’d also expect them to manipulate the starfleet corps of engineers so that starship design start to include things like shielded nacelles - that is, round nacelles inside square housings for extra protection. This might have gone back as far as the design of the class the shenzhou belongs to (although her nacelles look like they come off a jem hadar fighter - maybe they were a really early prototype?)
Either way I’d love it if the “DSC aesthetic” was referenced in-universe as the influence of s31 in the build up to the war (as starfleet can’t possibly have been so clueless as to think a war with the Klingons wasn’t coming. The DSC version of admiral Marcus must have been screaming it from the rooftops)
Its a licences CBS game model based off the real deal.
I don’t know if Adversaries gets the actual screen used models from CBS like Eaglemoss and Star Trek Online do.
In my head cannon I kept thinking the Discovery actually had 3 full nacelles inside each housing, and that the ships of that era could achieve high warp speeds by literally just cramming lots of warp nacelles into these square frames. So Eaves saying that he himself believes there are round nacelles in the square housings solves every problem I had with the ships, while also making the Connies seem more prestigious as they perhaps represent the most efficient tech available. The longer Ive looked at the disco ships the more I see them as a true continuation of the ENT aesthetic.
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