I did.
At least the character would be doing something other than being a living prop.
Stargate: Universe is what Voyager should've been like
- Thread starter Maxillius
- Start date
I did.
At least the character would be doing something other than being a living prop.
They're too overpowered and boring to be used more then once every 2 seasons or so. Plus, they're an honored TNG creation meaning the audience would be much less forgiving of VOY's usage of them in ANY capacity, no matter how good the story was.
I think the praise of eps. like "Scorpion" & "Dark Frontier" prove that to be untrue.
"Scorpion" is considered the beginning of the Borg's decay as villains, because that episode showed that there were other beings out there more powerful than them who could fight them and win easily. That wrecked their image as the single most powerful force in the Trekverse.
Hell, if "Scorpion" had been their one and ONLY appearance in all of VOY and they never introduced Seven of Nine then the opinion that they ruined the Borg would still be around.
Hell, if UNITY had been their one and only appearance in the entire show folks would just say that THAT episode permanently ruined the Borg for all time.
Hell, if "Scorpion" had been their one and ONLY appearance in all of VOY and they never introduced Seven of Nine then the opinion that they ruined the Borg would still be around.
Hell, if UNITY had been their one and only appearance in the entire show folks would just say that THAT episode permanently ruined the Borg for all time.
Then maybe you and all those you speak of should re-watch "Q-Who?" because Q himself says that they are just "one" of the many threats in the galaxy more powerful than Starfleet, not that they were the "ONLY" ones. If fans do believe what you claim, they simply didn't play attention just like they didn't during "BOBW" when the Admiral tells Picard that Starfleet could have beaten the Borg at Wolf359 if they had more time to build more stronger ships. So the Borg were never unbeatable bad asses to start with. Guinan had nearly her entire species taken by them and she still never feared them.
I agree, but VOY's detractors don't.
They should have introduced the 8472 in "Q Who?" itself: Q teleports them into the middle of a battle between the 8472 and the Borg (with the Borg losing). Then when the 8472 withdraw (or Q teleports them away) the ENT interacts with the Cube the way they did story-proper.
It would have hammered it right there that "You see, morons? These guys are tough but there are far worse things out there too!"
Instead we get the "Voyager showed that the Borg can actually lose to someone! They're ruined!" garbage.
They should have introduced the 8472 in "Q Who?" itself: Q teleports them into the middle of a battle between the 8472 and the Borg (with the Borg losing). Then when the 8472 withdraw (or Q teleports them away) the ENT interacts with the Cube the way they did story-proper.
It would have hammered it right there that "You see, morons? These guys are tough but there are far worse things out there too!"
Instead we get the "Voyager showed that the Borg can actually lose to someone! They're ruined!" garbage.
Well, both TNG & Voy are in the bag.
What folks think and say in retrospect makes little to no difference.
? Sorry, I don't understand the meaning.
Disagree.
ENT took all of Voy. problems and repeated them.
I think Voy. was good conceptually, it's was some of the execution that failed. Example: Characters like Harry Kim or Kes sounded great conceptually but upon execution they both fell very short. So instead of improving upon the mistakes w/ Kim when it came to Maywhether, they just did the same ones all over again.
So IMO , ENT is a result of not learning from your mistakes.
Well, I think you've heard enough of my issues with VOY (The Maquis were a bad idea, the Delta Quadrant was a bad idea, the large cast was a bad idea, etc).
ENT did make improvements in visual presentation, like editing, scene composition, etc. It was all stuff Mike Piller wanted to do with VOY but was overruled.
And ENT at least showed by S3 that they knew how to do a "Year of Hell" type story for an entire season with the Xindi arc.
ENT did make improvements in visual presentation, like editing, scene composition, etc. It was all stuff Mike Piller wanted to do with VOY but was overruled.
And ENT at least showed by S3 that they knew how to do a "Year of Hell" type story for an entire season with the Xindi arc.
Yeah, YOUR issues not mine.
Dunno, I personally think, VOY had a very flawed concept and problematic/dull characters, but they managed to get a lot out of that- especially when they realized they should focus more on the Doc and Seven. They also did "standard Trek stories" remarkably well imo, and that was filling a niche that DS9 couldn't. Both series were complementing one another.
ENT on the other hand had a fantastic concept and characters that were promising and they ran it into the ground. Laredo Mayweather was a more interesting character than Harry.
Harry was just some Wesley/Nog clone and the best we'd have gotten out of that was some "Lower Decks" thing going on.
But Harry got a lot more to do than Mayweather.
He was on Chekov level. Travis never got beyond, say, Nurse Chapel level. And he could have been some young Han Solo type.
Enterprise Schmenterprise.
ENT on the other hand had a fantastic concept and characters that were promising and they ran it into the ground. Laredo Mayweather was a more interesting character than Harry.
Harry was just some Wesley/Nog clone and the best we'd have gotten out of that was some "Lower Decks" thing going on.
But Harry got a lot more to do than Mayweather.
He was on Chekov level. Travis never got beyond, say, Nurse Chapel level. And he could have been some young Han Solo type.
Enterprise Schmenterprise.
When they started focusing on the Doctor and Seven seems to be when the show went downhill (besides Barclay taking over several episodes and having a velcro suit with soooo many bad ideas attached to him). How many good Doctor & Seven eps did we get in Seasons 6-7 (when they took over the spots Chakotay & Kim would get).
Doctor-
"Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy" (funny at first, but the whole thing is just a comedy episode. Wouldn't be as bad if they didn't repeat the concept ad nauseum)
"Author Author" (ad nauseum- tried to impersonate "Measure of a Man", but that portion was tiny and the comedy of the episode dominated)
"Renaissance Man" (once again, a Doctor romp)
"Virtuoso" (the Doctor wants to leave the ship to the whims of the Delta Quadrant without any trained doctors... so he can become an opera singer. How people think "Threshold" is more abominable than this episode is beyond me. Yes, even with transwarp salamander evolution, I still consider it a better episode than this)
"Lifeline" (awful Barclay episode, comes off as horribly dated 80s melodrama. Dr. "Father. Help me help you", the gruff father, the son that wants recognition. This doesn't even feel like a Star Trek episode. "Threshold" feels more Star Trek than this)
"Flesh and Blood" (the Doctor betrays his ship with no consequences to an extremist who returns the favor by trying to destroy Voyager. This story strained credulity and seemed to have to meet some kind of quota, since DS9 went off the air, to depict Bajorans, Cardassians, Romulans, and the like)
"Critical Care" was the only Doctor ep with him in a regular role.
Seven-
She didn't fare as bad as the Doctor.
"One Small Step"- Chakotay episode where she literally steps in and takes over.
"The Voyager Conspiracy"- Voyager's take on the then-popular X-Files along with "Riddles". Not her strongest ep, not bad either.
"Tsunkatse"- WWF cross-promotion. It was an ok ep. People don't seem to hate it the way "The Fight" is. Kind of interesting using the pirate broadcasting concept and that old Stratovision concept (tv from an airplane, an interesting bit of lost history).
"Imperfection" was a standard Seven ep.
"Human Error"... I won't knock the ep because it's really poignant for some viewers, though the holo-Chakotay should have been a holo-guest star.
"Natural Law" gave us all the ugliness of the Chakotay-Seven coupling. I wanted to see more Chakotay in the late seasons, but not like that.
She obviously had a big role in "Unimatrix Zero" and was involved in the Borg children episodes too.
"Body and Soul" combined the excesses of Doctor & Seven episodes in the worst way. They thought they could combine the 2 most popular characters in one and have a hit episode, but sometimes 2 popular things don't mix, like mixing chocolate ice cream & pizza.
Seven's eps weren't bad, though at the expense of other characters it wasn't good (Neelix had been reduced to a token presence by Season 4, getting just 1 episode/season or so). Most consider Seasons 6 & 7 to be among the weaker end of the spectrum.
Doubtful. "Scorpion" was and remains a popular episode of the series that a consensus of fans seem to agree raised the stakes and did something interesting with the Borg. It wasn't until later that Borg fatigue set in with the audience. If "Scorpion" was the last we heard of the Borg, the audience would be complaining that it didn't receive any follow-up, not that the Borg were ruined.
So again, it just comes down to folks being unpleasable no matter WHAT you do.
I mean really, if the Borg were never seen again after "Best of Both Worlds" nobody would complain that there wasn't a follow-up. But if "Scorpion" was the only Borg appearance in all of VOY and Seven was never introduced, all we'd get is "they have to show up again."
I'm sorry, but I'm still of the opinion that VOY's very premise was flawed. Or, it was at least wrong for a show that was supposed to last seven seasons. VOY's premise is good for 2-3 seasons at best, you need something deeper and more important to last all 7.
I mean really, if the Borg were never seen again after "Best of Both Worlds" nobody would complain that there wasn't a follow-up. But if "Scorpion" was the only Borg appearance in all of VOY and Seven was never introduced, all we'd get is "they have to show up again."
I'm sorry, but I'm still of the opinion that VOY's very premise was flawed. Or, it was at least wrong for a show that was supposed to last seven seasons. VOY's premise is good for 2-3 seasons at best, you need something deeper and more important to last all 7.
If you mean - "Canceled by the end of it's second season" - I 100% agree. 
Deja vu.
Some one told that exact same joke 10 pages back.
No offence.
Great minds think alike and all.
Some one told that exact same joke 10 pages back.
No offence.
Great minds think alike and all.
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