That's just a mild spin on The Cage, from back when Pike thought he was top dog, or the Island of Doctor Moreau.
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Stargate: Universe is what Voyager should've been like
- Thread starter Maxillius
- Start date
Well Voyager's pilot is obviously a Mid Summer Night's Dream.
But then, all thought is theft.
But then, all thought is theft.
Ok, I was in that play, and I'm not seeing it. Although I could be missing it. Could you please explain this to me?
Shit, Sorry. The Tempest.
But even then I'm mostly referring to a wizard shipwrecking unlikely souls into a strange faraway land.
But even then I'm mostly referring to a wizard shipwrecking unlikely souls into a strange faraway land.
I didn't study the Tempest at School. Did Lear three times. But a quickover view of the wiki-thread reminds me why I leapt to this conclusion some time ago.
if Miranda is the Ocampa ( Or to the thin edge of the wedge : Kes.), and Antonio were the kazon, however the schism between Antonio and Alonso, a baddie and a baddie no more, also acts as a parallel between the Maquis and Starfleet, or even Janeway and Seska if we draw from elements later in the plot... Because Janeway "saves" the Ocampa the wrong way in violation to caretakers beliefs that she s the bad girl even as she's saving the day... But that would just make the Kazon the general stink surrounding "Caretaker and the Ocampa" which is the scandal which brought Prospero lo in the first place.
if Miranda is the Ocampa ( Or to the thin edge of the wedge : Kes.), and Antonio were the kazon, however the schism between Antonio and Alonso, a baddie and a baddie no more, also acts as a parallel between the Maquis and Starfleet, or even Janeway and Seska if we draw from elements later in the plot... Because Janeway "saves" the Ocampa the wrong way in violation to caretakers beliefs that she s the bad girl even as she's saving the day... But that would just make the Kazon the general stink surrounding "Caretaker and the Ocampa" which is the scandal which brought Prospero lo in the first place.
It's been a while since I've looked at the Tempest, so I hadn't thought about it that broadly. Was in Much Ado and Midsummer, and studied Richerd the Third among others in an english class that focused solely on Shakespeare (sadly, I hear it's no longer offered at that school)
But I agree, now that you point those out, I can definitely see some similarities.
But I agree, now that you point those out, I can definitely see some similarities.
Squre Peg.. Meet Round Hole.
I remember someone claiming that there are only 15 stories in the world and that anything we see or read is just a redressing of that story. of course "whoever" were meaning barebones archetypes as much as the most primal renditions of those templates.
The thing I like about Universe is that many of their stories keep running in the background feeling no inherent need to disintegrate as they collide with the end credits. I mean what if the events in Night didn't straighten Janeway out, and Kathy just slunk back to her darkened quarters to brood for the next 5 episodes periodically cutting herself? How shining an example would Janeway have been to the new Drone "One" that Individuality wasn't just a route to emotional consumption and suicide that he wouldn't have run screaming for safety in the bosom of the Collective? Followed by a pity party and suiside pact with B'Elanna as those drown thier faces in black make up and listning to metal dirges still in the dark? The return of 8472 might have stirred her a little but it also would have stolen all the thunder out of one of her greatest victories confirming that she was a fraud unworthy of the pips on her collar or that seat under her lovely rump? but finally in an attempt to reconnect Janeway to her crew and the gravity of their situation, it is Janeway who is dragged by Naomi for play-therapy with Flotter. However, kathryn just makes the ligthbulb taller, broadens his education and then frakks the frakking frakker while the kid is down for her afternoon nap.
The reset button is ass.
Colnel Young on Univrse is shit at his job and he's going to get every one killed becuase he doesn't have the perspective, the balls or the skills to carry through on the mission, and week after week he's spanked, haunted and spankd again in-so that no single new blunder he makes is as devastating as the collective bollocks he's already to be blamed for... But gods he tries. Everett might even think he's kirk, but he's barely Dekker and probably "Styles" (The Swat guy from Hill Street Blues who had the excelsior before Sulu.).
I remember someone claiming that there are only 15 stories in the world and that anything we see or read is just a redressing of that story. of course "whoever" were meaning barebones archetypes as much as the most primal renditions of those templates.
The thing I like about Universe is that many of their stories keep running in the background feeling no inherent need to disintegrate as they collide with the end credits. I mean what if the events in Night didn't straighten Janeway out, and Kathy just slunk back to her darkened quarters to brood for the next 5 episodes periodically cutting herself? How shining an example would Janeway have been to the new Drone "One" that Individuality wasn't just a route to emotional consumption and suicide that he wouldn't have run screaming for safety in the bosom of the Collective? Followed by a pity party and suiside pact with B'Elanna as those drown thier faces in black make up and listning to metal dirges still in the dark? The return of 8472 might have stirred her a little but it also would have stolen all the thunder out of one of her greatest victories confirming that she was a fraud unworthy of the pips on her collar or that seat under her lovely rump? but finally in an attempt to reconnect Janeway to her crew and the gravity of their situation, it is Janeway who is dragged by Naomi for play-therapy with Flotter. However, kathryn just makes the ligthbulb taller, broadens his education and then frakks the frakking frakker while the kid is down for her afternoon nap.
The reset button is ass.
Colnel Young on Univrse is shit at his job and he's going to get every one killed becuase he doesn't have the perspective, the balls or the skills to carry through on the mission, and week after week he's spanked, haunted and spankd again in-so that no single new blunder he makes is as devastating as the collective bollocks he's already to be blamed for... But gods he tries. Everett might even think he's kirk, but he's barely Dekker and probably "Styles" (The Swat guy from Hill Street Blues who had the excelsior before Sulu.).
Only problem I see with showing such vulnerability is that it would come off as really sexist, considering the other male captains never showed any of that.
It's partially why they ordered the Maquis tensions dropped, they thought having the first female Trek Captain have to deal with all that crap from her crew when Kirk, Picard and Sisko never did wouldn't have looked right.
It's partially why they ordered the Maquis tensions dropped, they thought having the first female Trek Captain have to deal with all that crap from her crew when Kirk, Picard and Sisko never did wouldn't have looked right.
IMHO, which is by no means that important, I think that was a mistake. I think showing her having to deal with these things and overcoming them would have made the character stronger.
Now, mind you, I liked Voyager, I even liked the dreaded threshold episode (ducks incoming rotten tomatoes) but I think thats one thing that could have improved it.
Now, mind you, I liked Voyager, I even liked the dreaded threshold episode (ducks incoming rotten tomatoes) but I think thats one thing that could have improved it.
I think two things might've helped in this matter:
1) Janeway isn't the original Captain of Voyager, but the Chief Science Officer who is in command by default after the Captain and XO are both killed (either in the pilot, or a few episodes in) and it was shown that her superiors were really bad at handling the Maquis. So she looks better compared to her male predecessors.
2) Make Chakotay a woman, so her Maquis counterpart isn't a big tough manly man. Now it's less sexist in that her main alternative is also a woman.
1) Janeway isn't the original Captain of Voyager, but the Chief Science Officer who is in command by default after the Captain and XO are both killed (either in the pilot, or a few episodes in) and it was shown that her superiors were really bad at handling the Maquis. So she looks better compared to her male predecessors.
2) Make Chakotay a woman, so her Maquis counterpart isn't a big tough manly man. Now it's less sexist in that her main alternative is also a woman.
I'm not sure how #2 would make it less sexist. If anything having a man take orders from a woman is a stronger indicator that she's the one in charge. They've even had places where they would but heads, and she still had the last word. And rightly so, of course, since she's the captain.
The whole Maquis thing, if done to a more full extent, would mean that they wouldn't really be a part of the Fleet chain of command and it would be more a team-up between equals. Thus, Chakotay would be more her counterpart than her actual XO. Making him into a woman would lessen possible sexism when there'd be clashes between the two of them.
Making it easier for her is more sexist than showing her hav a bit a trouble working through a tough situation.
Picard lost Ro. He kinda lost "Riker". Gods it was him that left the colonies behind which arguably started/prolonged this mess.
The woman in Sisko's bed was terrorist scum. It's a little fracturing to accept that as a man he can't screw loyalty into a woman with skill and potency...
Male egos.
Marvellous stuff.
Picard lost Ro. He kinda lost "Riker". Gods it was him that left the colonies behind which arguably started/prolonged this mess.
The woman in Sisko's bed was terrorist scum. It's a little fracturing to accept that as a man he can't screw loyalty into a woman with skill and potency...
Male egos.
Marvellous stuff.
I have far less... I have zero respect for Archer.
Janeway might be Captain Ahab or Bly... But they had Captain Crunch in charge of the NX-01.
It's not the writing, it's the moral compass in the writers room.
Janeway might be Captain Ahab or Bly... But they had Captain Crunch in charge of the NX-01.
It's not the writing, it's the moral compass in the writers room.
Saquist
Commodore
At least Janeway could stare you down when pissed.
Archer just shouted at the deck....
Speaking of Archer. Could he have been bi-polar? I don't mean to complain about the character, but there were times where he'd be smiling one moment, yelling the next, then looking like he was about to cry. I don't think it was the actor, as I've seen him in other things where he didn't do that. Was it the direction? I know in stage theater we'd be given directions like "You need to sound more angry" or more distressed, etc.
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