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Stargate: Universe is what Voyager should've been like

So again, it just comes down to folks being unpleasable no matter WHAT you do.

Not really, no. I think there's a healthy middle ground between dangling plot threads without resolution and driving something into the ground. Voyager manages to do that in its fourth season, but all that goes out the window beginning with "Dark Frontier" in season five.
 
I just don't see how you can advance a plot like the Borg/8472 war in a way that satisfies anyone, having the Borg actually lose to anyone already provoked a negative response from the audience in the first place. And since the writers wouldn't want the VOY crew to be a bunch of losers, they'd have to play some major role in ending the war decisively.

Farscape pulled it off by having the Peacekeepers and Scarrans NOT be so "inhuman" in the first place that a diplomatic agreement both sides would agree to would be acceptable, but when dealing with such overpowered beings like the Borg who can only go around assimilating and destroying and the 8472 (who are basically Eldritch Abominations) you can't do that.
 
The only way I would do a version that I liked would be for the Borg to be invading some place in full force, like the majority of the Collective: The Unicomplex and thousands of Cubes/Spheres all attacking various sectors. VOY finds out how to attract the 8472 to some beacon device that calls to them, goes to the Unicomplex and sets it off before they get tractor beamed.

Then before they get destroyed the 8472 arrive, the Complex attacks them and they return fire and begin blowing it to smithereens. The Borg armada immediately withdraws to defend the Complex and they all get annihilated within minutes by the 8472 who then return to Fluidic Space right afterwards since they're uninterested in our dimension without being drawn there by something.

Results, the Borg have been 99% totally destroyed and Voyager's crew come off as big heroes for doing so.

I mean, really, thanks to DS9 there really wasn't much else the writers could do to make Janeway look heroic in comparison to the other Trek Captains OTHER than destroy all the Borg. Fighting off the Kazon/Vidiians/Krenim/Hirogen means nothing compared to the stuff Sisko did to save the Feds from the Dominion.
 
^^Being the first Captain to chart the DQ would have cemented her place in history.
She already surpassed Kirk for most first contacts with unknown alien races.
 
But like I said, compared to all of Sisko's victories and military achievements the people WATCHING the show wouldn't give a crap unless she pulled off something truly Galaxy-shaking to exceed the Dominion War. Kirk and Picard get passes for being before Sisko, but Janeway would have to exceed everything he ever did to get noticed.

And thanks to the constrains of the show's premise anything truly epic or galaxy-shaking the crew did would come off as utterly contrived, like all the epic stuff they DID do like stopping the Krenim Timeship or fighting the 8472.
 
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But like I said, compared to all of Sisko's victories and military achievements the people WATCHING the show wouldn't give a crap unless she pulled off something truly Galaxy-shaking to exceed the Dominion War. Kirk and Picard get passes for being before Sisko, but Janeway would have to exceed everything he ever did to get noticed.

Yes, I know.
I'm also tired of th fact that no other Trek now seems to exist to the online fanbase other than DS9.:rolleyes:
 
Farscape pulled it off by having the Peacekeepers and Scarrans NOT be so "inhuman" in the first place that a diplomatic agreement both sides would agree to would be acceptable, but when dealing with such overpowered beings like the Borg who can only go around assimilating and destroying and the 8472 (who are basically Eldritch Abominations) you can't do that.

Or they could of had the Species 8472 DNA intermingle with the Borg nanoprobes and produce a horrific hybrid of eldritch abomination and soul-stealing cyber-conformists: the Avatvus (screatch that)... Species 8675309, or known as the dreaded "Jenny" for short.
 
^^Being the first Captain to chart the DQ would have cemented her place in history.
She already surpassed Kirk for most first contacts with unknown alien races.

Data and Geordie were the first Starfleet Officers to chart the Delta Quadrant, and Ransom was the first Captain to chart the delta Quadrant.

However those two deep range ships mentioned in Life Line, which were planning on rendezvousing with Voyager in season 11? The must have entered the Delta Quadrant, or at least left earth 19 years before the events in Caretaker, so the time it takes to get tot he delta quadrant boarder from earth minus 19 years converted to distance...

They had a decade at least on Janeway after they had mapped the shit out of the beta Quadrant... but it was probably longer since these deep space vessels must be much older and slower than Voyager.

Janeway and Ransom were victims taking advantage of serendipity, Data cheated, but these other two guys who actually decided that they wanted to head into the Delta Quadrant for themselves on their own merit... They were brave and intrepid explorers whose missions were being sidelined and cockblocked to rescue Janeway.
 
Yep, to get noticed the writers had to have Janeway do something truly epic on par with all of Sisko's achievements in the Dominion War. And beating the Borg was the only option open to them.
 
Competing with DS9 may have been the problem. Instead of thinking of ways to outdo them, you simply attack from a different angle - provide characters, plots, etc. that DS9 would not be able to provide. Heck, that's why I think DS9 gained so much favor with some fans on the heels of TNG.

YMMV

But like I said, compared to all of Sisko's victories and military achievements the people WATCHING the show wouldn't give a crap unless she pulled off something truly Galaxy-shaking to exceed the Dominion War. Kirk and Picard get passes for being before Sisko, but Janeway would have to exceed everything he ever did to get noticed.

Yes, I know.
I'm also tired of th fact that no other Trek now seems to exist to the online fanbase other than DS9.:rolleyes:

Take a peek outside the TrekBBS. From my experience, you won't find as many supporters for the show.

Besides, people with certain opinions tend to congregate to one spot. Hence why the DS9 subforum's discussions consist primarily of DS9.

Conversley, no other Trek show exists within this subforum except for Voyager.
 
Janeway didn't destroy the Borg.

It was years before I even noticed people thought that Janeway had destroyed ALL the Borg EVERYWHERE.

I squinted, did some Math and understood how those people could come to that conclusion.

It's conceivable from the facts presented somewhat.

If you ignore a lot of what's come before.

But they're still wrong.

Sorry.

Surely if the Borg had been destroyed, someone would have told the people writing the Star Trek novels for the last ten years, otherwise how would the Queen have pwned Janeway ?

Besides, standing orders form Nechayev or not, genocide is going to get Kathryn kicked out of Starfleet even if it is the complete demolishment of assholes.
 
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Competing with DS9 may have been the problem. Instead of thinking of ways to outdo them, you simply attack from a different angle - provide characters, plots, etc. that DS9 would not be able to provide. Heck, that's why I think DS9 gained so much favor with some fans on the heels of TNG.

That's the problem, VOY's premise was too constraining to tell any kind of story that DS9 couldn't do. DS9's plot was flexible enough to tell any kind of story the writers wanted, VOY by comparison was too constrained.
 
Voyager has been Immortalized by the Simpsons.

A thousand years from now when they're still watching Simpsons, some kid is going to have use the internet's great great great great grand daughter to figure out what the frell this "Star Trek Voyager" thingy is.
 
Conversley, no other Trek show exists within this subforum except for Voyager.
Is that why the underlining theme of every debate & issue with Voyager is: "If Voyager were more like DS9...." With in this post itself, were asking if Voyager was more like *insert other space based sci-fi show here*:)
 
The only thing from Stargate Universe I'd have liked in VOY was having their ship be some massive city-sized starship of ancient unknown origin with powerful weaponry that was mostly automated and didn't need a normal crew to function.
 
On the other hand (putting aside the issue that DS9 was also of alien origin) an advanced alien ship might have made the technobabble/too advanced technology issue even more of a problem.

TNG is to blame as usual, but they were doing real ridiculous stuff in TNG and with standard 24th century tech already.

That's not to say it could be soved temporarily (they can't figure out the alien tech, the ship has a mind of its own etc.), but with Geordi and Scotty leading the way, they would have tried to have another miracle worker engineer who would at some point have control over far advanced technology- and then our protagonists would be the overpowered ones.

DS9's premise with some old low-tech station was a good choice (and still was able to give us some starfleet environments), a super high tech ship for VOY may have been too ambitious for the writers.

How about a "combined" solution (like *cough* Andromeda): They got a small Starfleet ship (something the size of Defiant), and they use it as some kind of secondary vessel, mostly parked inside the big alien vessel, but unable to serve as the main ship because it's too small for the crew and other peole they picked up in the pilot.
 
I've already done my own version of Voyager, with the ship being an Ambassador Heavy Cruiser (and the plot being more like Andromeda where they go around building a Delta Federation, the 8472 being the main villains of the entire series).

But I've gotten a new idea for another new take, and I'd start off by having the Caretaker be a much bigger influence on the area they're in:

He'd be this Mad God who experiments on various folks from around the Galaxy he's imprisoned on Ocampa, and he's kept all the sentient species for around 20,000 LY all at a subjugated level to prevent any major spacefaring empires/federations from forming and doing anything to interfere with his rule. His mate left him long ago, tired of this madness. The Kazon are his servant species, basically "God's Children" who help enforce his will when he needs them though he experiments/tortures them as well.

His latest pull is the transport ship Janeway and Tuvok were on, Tuvok bringing in some Maquis terrorists while Janeway had a schedule mixup and needed the transport to get to her new assignment.

Either they bring some Alpha Quadrant bacteria with them that has a nasty result on the Caretaker and kills him, or his latest madness was the last stage of a terminal disease that kills him. He activates a self-destruct and Janeway and co lead a jailbreak on the Ocampan world where they evacuate everyone (and there are folks from all over the DQ there, not just the Ocampa) onto the ancient vessel that the Caretaker used to come to our Galaxy in the first place.

The Kazon break up into groups, with one group deciding that they will avenge their dead Master and take his "Legacy" (the Nacene ship) from the "Invaders". Neelix is a Kazon who had long ago tried to rebel against his God and was imprisoned as a "Heretic" and helps Janeway and co escape.

The Nacene ship is massive, capable of sustaining thousands of people (though the crew is much smaller, and so they don't need to resupply and crewmembers can disappear into the ship's expanses for entire episodes) and has incredible technology and weaponry but not compatible with the DNA of any of the crew to take complete control so the ship's AI takes over functions. It scans Janeway's form and assumes a human Hologram form (Robert Picardo) as a "form you are comfortable with". He'll help them with basic ship functions like navigation and low-to-mid-level weaponry and disembarking/re-embarking on planetside missions but not with much else unless he concludes its for good reason.

They do have other vessels stored in the ship like the Fed Barge and other vessels from the other captives, but most of them are okay with staying on the Nacene ship with its superior power.

Immediately afterwards, the surrounding regions all begin to react to the death of their Mad God and we see what kind of social/cultural/political reactions there are when "God Dies", like the creation of new Empires and wars or cooperation.

Plus, the Caretaker also swiped groups of Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Ferengi from the Alpha Quadrant and they also all escaped on their own ships when the Array blew, so they can show up as recurring characters also on the move.

How's that?
 
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