Stargate: Universe is what Voyager should've been like

[exodus]

I honestly think "Emissary" was the best opener of any Trek show, myself...

It was very boring. This is the mistake that many writers make believing that every character needs a long drawn out intro.

In Caretaker the story took precedent not necessarily the characters. Janeway and Tuvok , Chakotay and Torres were more or less the focus and told a gripping two hour story of how this faithful ship got stranded.

I don't know if "gripping" would be the word I'd use.
I think "Caretaker" almost became a comedy when Banjo Man & Mama Corn showed up and how Southern hospitality is supposed to represent the AQ. So much for keeping up with Trek's theme of diversity. I found the metaphores in DS9's "Emissary" far more complex.

 

[Saquist]

Yeah, well SGU's opening wasn't that complex. "Caretaker" was and would have benefited from more time.

The only way I can see a 3 parter is delving into the Voyager Conspiracy with the Cardassians on the true purpose of why Voyager was there.

 

[Lynx]

I honestly think "Emissary" was the best opener of any Trek show, myself...

It was very boring. This is the mistake that many writers make believing that every character needs a long drawn out intro.

In Caretaker the story took precedent not necessarily the characters. Janeway and Tuvok , Chakotay and Torres were more or less the focus and told a gripping two hour story of how this faithful ship got stranded.

I don't know if "gripping" would be the word I'd use.
I think "Caretaker" almost became a comedy when Banjo Man & Mama Corn showed up and how Southern hospitality is supposed to represent the AQ. So much for keeping up with Trek's theme of diversity. I found the metaphores in DS9's "Emissary" far more complex.

I think that the scenario with the farm and its people were great. It was so unreal that it became exciting in some way.

As for Mama Corn, she was almost a dead ringer to an old woman in my neigborhood when I was a kid which made it even more funny to watch.

As for "Caretaker", I regard it as the best pilot episode I've seen in any series.

I didn't like "Emissary" that much. An OK pilot but a bit too weird for my taste.

 

[Anwar]

I would have used that time to better establish Chakotay's Maquis group and what made them good foils for the Federation instead of just assuming off the bat that they'd be good foils.

And maybe I'd have the Caretaker also holding some captive Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Ferengi with their own vessels, all of whom escape at the end when the Array is destroyed. That way the new Voyager aliens can be shown alongside these old ones (who either join VOY's crew or become recurring villains who secretly follow VOY figuring they'll find a way out of the Delta Quadrant) so the new aliens will be better received.

You know one major reason the Dominion were easier to accept by the audience in DS9? Because the writers could tell stories of the Dominion intertwined with stories about the Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Ferengi.

Give VOY that same advantage by bringing a lot of home with them to the DQ, and the new VOY aliens have that better chance at acceptance.

 

[Gaith]

Ironic that we're going back to RDM's criticism of VOY now - which I agreed with at the time (and still do) - but Mr. Holy Continuity himself made a fundamental mistake with BSG

I don't understand. How could you possibly agree with a statement he made after knowing that he later failed to live up to that statement? Don't you see that his later failures made everything he ever said wrong?!

 

[exodus]

As for "Caretaker", I regard it as the best pilot episode I've seen in any series.

I'm glad you approve of one more reason they didn't fire the writing staff to keep one character.

 

[Lynx]

^^
At the time for the pilot, they still had the ability to write for all the cast members so I see no reasons to criticize them for the good things they accomplished, only for the bad things.

 

[Saquist]

I would have used that time to better establish Chakotay's Maquis group and what made them good foils for the Federation instead of just assuming off the bat that they'd be good foils.

And maybe I'd have the Caretaker also holding some captive Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Ferengi with their own vessels, all of whom escape at the end when the Array is destroyed. That way the new Voyager aliens can be shown alongside these old ones (who either join VOY's crew or become recurring villains who secretly follow VOY figuring they'll find a way out of the Delta Quadrant) so the new aliens will be better received.

You know one major reason the Dominion were easier to accept by the audience in DS9? Because the writers could tell stories of the Dominion intertwined with stories about the Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Ferengi.

Give VOY that same advantage by bringing a lot of home with them to the DQ, and the new VOY aliens have that better chance at acceptance.

That's very creative.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Because a fall from grace is spectacularly satisfying and compelling.

Janeway TAMING Chakotay "right now" makes me think of that North Korean diplomat(?) ripping out Syndney Bristow's teeth with pliers in the Alias pilot. Gods, Kathy had to smack that terrorist scum on the nose with a rolled up piece of newspaper somehow to get him to fall into line!

Exodus, remember in the Squire of Gothos, where Trelane forgot to account for light speed when he was studying his Predators? Thought humans were still in the 18th century? I'm pretty sure that after he locked onto Voyager (Or Equinox) that Caretaker (possibly the janitor before every one else important left) and took the ship, he then thought to pry on their homeworld to understand how to best daterape his new wife candidates, AND FORGOT TO ACCOUNT FOR LIGHTSPEED... Which allows us to calculate the actual distance between Earth and Badlands. Fucker was counting on his fingers.

I would have had the third episode be about Janeway making a stand on Ocampa, because Janeway didn't scare anyone away for good, and within a day or two 15 ships would have showed up to deal with her and dig it's way into the Ocampan City. If it wasn't for a few comments made during Fury I would have been positive that the Ocampans were doomed from either a successful penetration of their defences or complete capitulation after their shields failed in season five, since that was still a Kazon planet in Kazon space populated by Kazons.

 

[Anwar]

Here's an idea: If the Caretaker's own power is what brings them to the Ocampan Homeworld, and when he dies so does all hope of going home why not just have them leave the Array in search of a properly civilized area beyond Kazon space, while the automated Array is left there to power the homeworld and defend it from the Kazon raids?

 

[Guy Gardener]

How can the Kazons "raid" their own planet? You're thinking that they're into masochism and self-abuse?

The Ocampa haven't been seen in a thousand years. That's like telling the English, French and Egyptians that they are deluding themselves with unnecessary ILLEGAL notions of autonomy and they should keep up with their taxes and tribute to Italy because they're still inimically Citizens or property of Rome.

 

[Anwar]

The first thing the now automated Array does, since it's AI is better functioning than the ever-more-senile Caretaker's mind was, is to open fire and destroy all Kazon vessels on the planet and drive the rest away?

A side-effect is that the Ocampa are unafraid to go to the surface, take over the Kazon surface bases for themselves and star to re-establish their civilization, and their psychic powers start to all come back?

Something to show that the writers weren't totally negligent about the future fate of the Ocampa?

 

[Guy Gardener]

You do understand that kathryn would have to save the Kazon from the Caretaker, and then most certainly she would have to save the Ocampa and the kazon from a Xenophobic computer program that has no qualms about killing sentient beings. Sentient assholes sure, but sliding scale, that computer might start killing anyone that crosses a threshhold to it' program... Who might not be assholes.

The surface was dead. void of Nuclegenic acid or some such which made plant life impossible, Caretaker couldn't caretake his cows if they ranged free too far across the planets surface, and if they tried to wander off on their own he really couldn't look after them, because they would be dead, which is why he built those underground kennels.

I also wonder if he manipulated their breeding cycle, that every generation was half the size of the last, effecting a very slow and very humane extermination.

Remember TOS The Apple?

Starfleet does not approve of AI ruling over cows.

 

[Anwar]

You do understand that kathryn would have to save the Kazon from the Caretaker, and then most certainly she would have to save the Ocampa and the kazon from a Xenophobic computer program that has no qualms about killing sentient beings. Sentient assholes sure, but sliding scale, that computer might start killing anyone that crosses a threshhold to it' program... Who might not be assholes.

Sounds like a good story, go for it!

The surface was dead. void of Nuclegenic acid or some such which made plant life impossible, Caretaker couldn't caretake his cows if they ranged free too far across the planets surface, and if they tried to wander off on their own he really couldn't look after them, because they would be dead, which is why he built those underground kennels.

I also wonder if he manipulated their breeding cycle, that every generation was half the size of the last, effecting a very slow and very humane extermination.

I'd think that once their powers started to come back, they'd be able to fix up the planet. Caretaker did a lot more harm than good the way he coddled them for all that time.

I also think it's strange that the technology of the Array wouldn't be able to do some terraforming to some parts of the surface.

 

[Guy Gardener]

JANEWAY: That's only one of the mysteries we're dealing with, Mister Tuvok. Take a look at this.
(A scan of the planet on her desk monitor.)
JANEWAY: It's virtually a desert. Not one ocean, not one river. It has all the basic characteristics of an M-class planet except there are no nucleogenic particles in the atmosphere.
TUVOK: That would mean the planet is incapable of producing rain.
JANEWAY: I've studied thousands of M-class planets. I've never seen an atmosphere without nucleogenics. There must have been some kind of extraordinary environmental disaster. As soon as repairs are complete, we'll set a course for the fifth planet.

My mistake, it was the air which was buggered up. It's more than possible that the current state of Ocampa was after the result of centuries of teraforming inso that the surface is just barren now and not dangerous or poisonous. Which would explain the singular necessity of the underground kennel once upon a time.

But what the Nacene did was described as a debt that could never be repaid, and maybe that's just as good as it got.

 

[Anwar]

So the Caretaker is capable of building an Array that can pull matter from the other side of the Galaxy but he can't fix up environmental damage done to one planet? Despite his mate having mental abilities that border on reality manipulation?

Seriously, him being some weirdo Zoo-keeper who deliberately was capturing folks for his Zoo (which included the Ocampa) is starting to make more and more sense.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I doubt Cartaker built he array.

It was probably left for him by the important Nacen who didn't give a bolock about screwing over an insignificant world of bipedal hamsters.

And considering that Caretaker thought rape was fun, it's pretty obvious why Susperia left and wanted nothing to do with him when supposedly they were a "couple". So either he raped her, or when she said "No" he respected her but then began raping everyone else and she couldn't find it in herself to watch/justify/be associated with his deviant predilections.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, that whole plot point about him wanting to find someone he could breed with to make a new Caretaker for the Ocampa, forcefully experimenting on those folks he felt had potential was pretty messed up.

See what I mean when I say that the show was rushed? This story could've done with some revisions, needed time, and a 3rd part/a mini-series.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But if Caretaker wasn't looking for a new mate, then why would he have dragged Voyager to the otherside of the galaxy to met the crew if not sausage time?

 

[Anwar]

Like I said, crazy-species collector who messed up the Ocampa homeworld in an old experiment and keeps them as guinea pigs, brings new species for further experiments to cure some disease he's dying from. Can't find any cure, dies but leaves his Array on auto-pilot to protect his main zoo on the planet. Several other Alpha Quadrant alien ships he kept are also released and take off (for later use), VOY similarly takes off when it turns out the Array can't send them home anyways, the Ocampa start to rebuild.