Starfleet as the Military...

[Spot261]

What I am saying is that in terms of what Starfleet's official standing is that it is as a branch first and foremost devoted to exploration and diplomacy with.defence as a secondary function (yet still of high importance)

Which, whilst true, in no way invalidates the "military" label, they are an organisation which focuses on exploration when it is possible and pragmatic to do so, defence when expediency calls. Much like most real world militaries.

The fact is there's a fine dividing line between

1) starfleet not being a military
versus
2) sarfleet not being acknowledged as a military

Either could be accepted as canon if we look purely at the pronouncements, but actually watching the show gives us a clear and extensive picture of an organisation that in no discernable way differs from a military. For reasons we have some insight into irl (and can guess at in universe) the word "military" is perceived as being distasteful in the 23rd/24th centuries and is thus actively avoided by SF.

This can apprropiately taken as political correctness at best, propaganda or even thought policing at worst, but nonetheless what we are shown is absolutely a military organisation, just one that has a policy of not using that term.

Saying Starfleet not being a military is much like Picard saying there were five lights. We could accept it, but only by denying the evidence of our eyes because we were told to.

 

[Mudd]

No sane people with a functioning culture would welcome the Federation.

 

[Ithekro]

Likely the meaning of the term changes, as it has over the last several centuries. The Military was just the army a long time ago while the Navy was not the military.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ yeah, if you want to get technical, Starfleet isn't military, it's naval.

Generally, though, Starfleet must logically be the military. We've seen it fight wars (against the Klingons, Cardassians, and the Dominion), and only a military can fight a war.

 

[BillJ]

Generally, though, Starfleet must logically be the military. We've seen it fight wars (against the Klingons, Cardassians, and the Dominion), and only a military can fight a war.

I think it is more than that. It is that we've never seen anyone else, or even had anyone else mentioned, that takes on the military war for the Federation. Even defending installations fell to Starfleet, with no mention of any kind of separate ground component.

 

[Spot261]

From the Oxford English Dictionary, a definition of "military":

Relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces.

No exclusion of naval forces there. I believe as you say the US Navy was not classed as a military organisation for a period, doubtless many historians and or Americans could fill in the details there far better than I could.

This is however a matter internal to the US and not pertinent to the definition of military.

 

[Wouter]

Starfleet may see itself as being first and foremost an exploration service, a humanitarian organization, a scientific institution, etc. But during times of conflict, such a distinction tends to go quickly out the window.

It's not really limited to times of conflict, though. Sure, what you see in times of conflict is that the gloves come off and no-compromise ships like the Defiant get build (en masse even, by the end of DS9) and used. Ships that are build to be weapons, with little in the way of secondary functions (even though the Defiant was still used as taxi or UPS, occasionally).

But even in peace time, ships like the Galaxy-class aren't equipped with powerful phasers (able to threaten a Romulan warbird, or to cut a top-of-the-line Cardassian warship to pieces), fast-firing torpedoes or strong defensive shields because Starfleet sees itself as a exploration service, first and foremost. Those things weren't added in a panicked hurry after the first encounter with a Romulan ship in a long time (at the same time the effect of the first Borg attacks were seen, though not Starfleet didn't know yet who was responsible), they were part of the original design.

So, while the emphasis changes depending on need, Starfleet always has been aware it is the only defence that Earth and the Federation have.

 

[Ithekro]

The NX-01 found out the hard way that exploration is dangerous ,and weapons are likely required to keep the ship safe so it can continue to explore.

As for the term "military" I was thinking early 1700s or even earlier, as the term became similar to present day usage before1800 with it being about professionals.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No sane people with a functioning culture would welcome the Federation.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's not really limited to times of conflict, though. Sure, what you see in times of conflict is that the gloves come off and no-compromise ships like the Defiant get build (en masse even, by the end of DS9) and used. Ships that are build to be weapons, with little in the way of secondary functions (even though the Defiant was still used as taxi or UPS, occasionally).

But even in peace time, ships like the Galaxy-class aren't equipped with powerful phasers (able to threaten a Romulan warbird, or to cut a top-of-the-line Cardassian warship to pieces), fast-firing torpedoes or strong defensive shields because Starfleet sees itself as a exploration service, first and foremost. Those things weren't added in a panicked hurry after the first encounter with a Romulan ship in a long time (at the same time the effect of the first Borg attacks were seen, though not Starfleet didn't know yet who was responsible), they were part of the original design.

So, while the emphasis changes depending on need, Starfleet always has been aware it is the only defence that Earth and the Federation have.

Preaching to the choir there, but my point above was that whatever distinctions Starfleet may wish to have with today's militaries are tenuous at best during peacetime and essentially non-existent in times of conflict. Starfleet can call itself whatever it wants, though.

 

[urbandefault]

A "peacekeeping and humanitarian armada" is how Pike described Starfleet in ST09.

So, in the K-verse it is the military, but not necesarily the primary mission. I can dig it.

 

[Lance]

I've never fully understood why people draw such a distinction between Starfleet being either 'a military' or 'explorers'. Why not both?

Frankly, there are precedents in our own military histories. Starfleet is, at least in part, based upon the 18th century British Navy; and while, yes , they had a remit of fulfilling the protectionism and colonialism of the Empire, one of the lesser acknowledged aspects of the British Navy was that one of the most important people on board was the ship's botanist , somebody whose job was to catalogue the strange flora and fauna found in these far distant lands. I don't see Starfleet as being particularly different to that, with a mixture of tactical minded types and scientists, and a mission that encompasses both protecting the sovereignty of the Federation alongside discovery and scientific endeavors.

Nobody is going around saying the British Navy wasn't military despite the importance they placed on botany and exploration, and Starfleet is very clearly a military that has been cast from the same mold.

 

[Tenacity]

A "peacekeeping and humanitarian armada" is how Pike described Starfleet in ST09.

No, that's how Pike described the Federation.

 

[Paradise City]

Which, whilst true, in no way invalidates the "military" label, they are an organisation which focuses on exploration when it is possible and pragmatic to do so, defence when expediency calls. Much like most real world militaries.

The fact is there's a fine dividing line between

1) starfleet not being a military
versus
2) sarfleet not being acknowledged as a military

Either could be accepted as canon if we look purely at the pronouncements, but actually watching the show gives us a clear and extensive picture of an organisation that in no discernable way differs from a military. For reasons we have some insight into irl (and can guess at in universe) the word "military" is perceived as being distasteful in the 23rd/24th centuries and is thus actively avoided by SF.

This can apprropiately taken as political correctness at best, propaganda or even thought policing at worst, but nonetheless what we are shown is absolutely a military organisation, just one that has a policy of not using that term.

Saying Starfleet not being a military is much like Picard saying there were five lights. We could accept it, but only by denying the evidence of our eyes because we were told to.

My position is that Starfleet is an unofficial military that nevertheless discharges a military function among other functions. I don't disavow the military label but I do think one needs to say more to gain the right picture on this.

I would argue it's probably is a border patrol force realistically given how bellicose and powerful the Federations rivals are and how huge the frontier must be. That must make huge demands on Starfleet not only to "be there" but to have enough teeth to deter any threat that may arise.

But notwithstanding any of that I would maintain that Starfleet publically positions and advertises itself as an exploration and diplomatic force primarily whilst making it known that it can more than protect Federation citizens should it be called upon to do do.

 

[Tallguy]

A "peace keeping armada"

No, that's how Pike described the Federation.

Writers' strikes are hard.

 

[Tenacity]

label but I do think one needs to say more to gain the right picture on this

Excepting that they operate in space, what else does starfleet do that historically militaries didn't?

Writers' strikes are hard.

Would this explain a third year cadet becoming Captain of the flagship?

 

[The Wormhole]

A "peace keeping armada"

Writers' strikes are hard.

Although, STID didn't have the benefit of a writer's strike to explain its dodgy dialogue. Just what the hell is an "aft nacelle" anyway?

 

[fireproof78]

Although, STID didn't have the benefit of a writer's strike to explain its dodgy dialogue. Just what the hell is an "aft nacelle" anyway?

A booster like this one

 

[Jedman67]

Would this explain a third year cadet becoming Captain of the flagship?

No, that's just lazy plotting.

 

[Spot261]

Excepting that they operate in space, what else does starfleet do that historically militaries didn't?

zilch

problem solved