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Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie...


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I disagree. Luke lived the life he always dreamed of. A farm boy yearning to get away, to help in the fight against the Empire. Over the next few years he grew into a confident, skilled man who knew who he was and where he came from.

Luke brought his father back into the light after decades of living in the dark. He willingly gave himself over to save him. To consider murdering a sleeping boy because he just might have Dark Side predilections...I find "a poor choice" to be a massive understatement.

That said, Luke's storyline is far from my biggest problem with that movie.

I assume you mean TFA followed by TROS? (TLJ already follows TFA.) But even then, I dunno...I think people might just wonder how Luke Skywalker died. ;)

To each his own. Or.....

From a certain point of view..... ;)

And that's what makes being a fan so great. We all find different meanings in what we enjoy. And, if we are wise enough, respect the feelings and opinions of others.
 
A little disappointed that Rose was given so little to do this time around. At least we see her on the ground team boarding the Star Destroyers.

To consider murdering a sleeping boy because he just might have Dark Side predilections...I find "a poor choice" to be a massive understatement.

I realise everyone has a different view of this, but I didn’t think it was out of character for Luke. He’d always been given to rash decisions without fully thinking them through, like how he abandons his training, against the warnings of Yoda and Obi-Wan, just because of a vision he had. There’s also the throne room duel in ROTJ, where Vader finally manages to get under Luke’s skin, Luke gives in to his anger, and by the end it’s no longer a duel, he’s just beating the crap out of a helpless old man, and pulls himself back from the brink before it’s too late. It’s as if when they wrote TLJ, they asked “what if he was just a split second too late in realising his mistake”.

Luke is a more complex character than a lot of us give him credit for.
 
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YES! Wether or not he succeeded or not doesn't matter. His CHOICE is what is important. He redeemed himself by choosing to sacrifice himself to save his son. .
Lucas has said Palaptine had to die as in...die to bring balance to the force. Earthmover time. Bringing him back strongly implies Vader failed (and his effort meaningless as the final answer of destiny it was meant to be), and from the events of this film--he did.
 
To each his own. Or.....

From a certain point of view..... ;)

And that's what makes being a fan so great. We all find different meanings in what we enjoy. And, if we are wise enough, respect the feelings and opinions of others.
Exactly so.
 
I was looking forward to seeing Supreme Leader Ren as the main antagonist. By killing Snoke, I believe, the character earned it. Bringing back Palpatine was nothing but cheap damage control.
That would have certainly worked better than what we eventually got there. It's just another case of the powers that be once again leaning too much on the OT characters. They should have had the big 3 (luke,han,lea)in TFA just there long enough to pass the baton and then make an honorable exit from the series.

Not that I believe there was ever any damage there in the first place, but someone up there at Disney must have thought so.
The huge drop in box office for the last few films along with the negative fan reaction to TLJ was certainly damage to the brand. We can speculate all day long on the why, but all was clearly not right in the world of Star Wars. Disney spent $4 billion dollars to acquire this franchise, so expectation were sky high. Being a critical favorite means nothing if the dollars aren't coming in to where expectations are.
 
Given how Obi-Wan frames it, having Luke trust his instincts there is some kind of impact, even if not full agency, there is some sort of will or laws that itself abides by. As Yoda would say "Life gives it energy; makes it grow." The idea of the Force reacting to ensure life continues may not be agency, per se, but a more natural reaction of keeping balance..

Sorry for the late reply. I suppose what my idea of the Force (at least in that era) came down to was that it essentially needed some kind of human interaction to do anything, but I can see it from your point of view. I don't mind the idea of the Force being slightly more active in this 'balance' sense we get more of in the sequels, but again I view it as a very different take.
Disney spent $4 billion dollars to acquire this franchise, so expectation were sky high.

Wasn't the purchase based on their failure to secure the rights to Harry Potter? I've read that a few times, but I don't know how concrete it is. I think there was a general misunderstanding of how well Star Wars would continue to work as a blockbuster franchise and how tough it would be to keep people pleased.
 
Being a critical favorite means nothing if the dollars aren't coming in to where expectations are.
Yeah, Disney didn't buy Star Wars for critical acclaim, they made an investment expecting fat returns. Which is why, after Solo losing all that money, TROS opening 20% below TLJ and 20 million below projections isn't going to make Bob Iger very happy.
 
I've just watched it for the first time today. I'm going for A-, this film has issues, absolutely, but I had such an excellent time at the cinema with this that I think my rating stands for now. There's certainly a LOT to take in, digest and discuss but I think this is the best of the new trilogy without troubling the holy duo of ANH and ESB, and maybe even RO. My gut feeling is this is going to settle around joint fourth place alongside ROTS in my personal rankings.

Things I liked

The visuals. Clearly the most visually stunning SW movie and one of the most visually amazing films period. This film almost makes the other two seem rudimentary on this front.

Plenty of locales to drink in, again all looked great and fixed a criticism I had of the previous two movies that I thought were lacking on that front, especially TFA.

A great sense of adventure and good pacing that was absent from TLJ.

All the main characters were, in the main working together instead of being separated which I liked, and all had something to do and were on good form - ridley and driver give their best performances of the trilogy here. The rest of the gang are all fine too and it was nice to see Finn not being relegated to annoying comedy sidekick, and actually have (albeit brief) a continuation of his story here, as well as the hints of force sensitivity too. Even hux gets an unexpected turn, hell even 3P0 has a fairly important part to play.

The use of footage of Carrie Fisher was pretty well done considering it was shot for a different film and she ended up playing a small but pivotal role regarding kylo ren. Chewies devastation at her death is a great scene.

There's a fair bit of fan service here but most of it lands. Force ghost luke lifting the x wing out of the water to the same bit of amazing ESB score and chewie finally getting a medal are two that immediately spring to mind.

Things I didn't like

The plot was a bit like video game, get object from point A to B etc and was a bit predictable at times.

Palpatine is probably my favourite SW character, but I'm still struggling with his inclusion here. I guess TLJ left the writers at a bit of a dead end villain wise but his inclusion, however enjoyable here, just feels a little creativity bankrupt to me. It's made worse by a pretty one dimensional turn with some really cheesy dialogue. I dunno, maybe I was expecting the same dastardly turn from him like in ROTS, he looked really creepy but something just didn't feel quite right. Maybe this will improve on subsequent rewatches.

I think they've taken force powers too bloody far too. I yearn for the days of the Force being something a little more mysterious that was limited to more basic stuff like simple telekinesis, enhanced reflexes, mind tricks and the like, not teleporting objects across vast distances and curing death (where have I read THAT criticism before I wonder?) it's got to the point where they're becoming immortal gods and it's kinda taking a bit of the drama and peril out of it for me and it's frankly all just getting a bit over the top for my tastes.

One of the film's strengths in giving all the characters something to do also almost threatens to derail it too, this film feels like a three hour plus film squeezed into it's runtime at times with loads of side characters. I think it JUST manages to service it all though.

The opening crawl was... almost laughable.

They still can't get a young CGI version of Carrie Fisher right.

Putting thousands of ships on the screen does not constitute a good space battle. This was more like the chaos of ROTS than the brilliance of RO or ROTJ. It was good, but was again just completely OTT.

Overall I really enjoyed TROS, but weirdly, I actually felt glad that the main saga was over, there's a bit of a sense of things just getting a bit repetitive - how many times have we seen hidden children/parents, the struggle that never seems to end even when the good guys seemingly win convincingly (ROTJ), combined with the seeming increasing invincibility of the heroes and over the top action I just had the feeling walking out of the theater that this needed to end here as it did. It feels like the franchise has absolutely nothing more to give after this. I feel like moving forward it's best served with side stories set in the same universe like RO (I haven't watched the mandalorian yet) where the force/jedi/sith are not really touched upon. It's a stunning, diverse setting where any kind of tale can be told. TROS has burned me out on the Force side of things for now.

But this film does end on a high and it's still an absolute blast to watch, which is something I can't say of it's predecessor and ultimately that means more to me when I'm watching a SW film.
 
Yeah, Disney didn't buy Star Wars for critical acclaim, they made an investment expecting fat returns. Which is why, after Solo losing all that money, TROS opening 20% below TLJ and 20 million below projections isn't going to make Bob Iger very happy.

They were supposedly also motivated by a chance to update the theme parks after Universal started getting so many visitors when they opened The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Star Wars Land does at least seem to be a success for them, and that's the type of success that should keep bringing in money for quite some time, but it probably hasn't been quite the draw they wanted.
 
I think in the long run the investment is safe. Mandalorian is a smash that put Disney+ on the map over night and the Kenobi series is going to be huge. Jedi: Fallen Order is a monster hit. Theme parks are probably going to do fine as well.

But the stupendous success of The Force Awakens made it seem like Star Wars was going to be Disney's flagship cash cow, instead of a second fiddle to Marvel.
 
I think in the long run the investment is safe. Mandalorian is a smash that put Disney+ on the map over night and the Kenobi series is going to be huge. Jedi: Fallen Order is a monster hit. Theme parks are probably going to do fine as well.
Indeed. This is a long game and Disney will not panic over one box office.
 
Two box offices - Solo underperformed, as well.

This film has generated so much negative reaction and overresponse. There is a eleven-hour video on YouTube, where the people in a round table discussion criticized the film.

I am weary of seeing the familiar refrain, that a minority of fans convinced the makers of this film to do fan service and that fan service backfired. They are an annoyance to Disney; however, I doubt they play as great a role as is being portrayed in the creative decisions made into this film. The greatest fan service, in my opinion, is for Disney to have had a plan for this trilogy and keeping the train on the tracks.
 
But the stupendous success of The Force Awakens made it seem like Star Wars was going to be Disney's flagship cash cow, instead of a second fiddle to Marvel.

I think that’s a good way to look at it. TFA was a such a massive success that it made the performance of the others look bad by comparison.
 
I hope Star Wars dies. Fandom has pretty much turned me off of franchises at this point. :(
Once I've gotten my Kenobi series, Star Wars is free to die, for all I care. Though getting that Old Republic series before it happens would be nice.
 
Looking over a few comments here, and I got to say I agree a lot with Trek_God 1 when it comes to Finn and Rey. In other threads I've talked about the chemistry between Boyega and Ridley and how it should've been built on in the films, but I knew that wasn't going to happen. And like Trek_God 1, I saw Rose as a character created to sidetrack an idea of a Finn/Rey romance as The Last Jedi wanted to build instead on the connection between Rey and Ren, despite it being far more problematic. I got zero chemistry from Finn and Rose and that last kiss on Crait after she stopped him from maybe saving the Resistance felt forced and coming more from her than him. Finn had eyes for Rey. When they reunited and hugged, that had more emotion than any 'romantic' scene between Finn and Rose. (Nothing against Kellie Marie Tran, like most of the sequel actors, she had to work with what she was given. One of the positive things about the sequel trilogy was how good the casts were. It's just they were in mostly bad or lackluster films, and I'm saying this even though I liked TROS for the most part).

There was also some speculation that how Rey and Dameron met at the end of TLJ might hint at something, but TROS created two potential new love interests for Dameron and Finn to clear the way for Reylo, but Abrams, wanting to please everyone, also made sure to kill Ben off right after their kiss so that anti-Reylo fans would not be angered.

Also agree with Trek_God 1 about how racially regressive the depiction of Finn's character was, which I've also written about in other threads. Looking at the demographic breakdown of TROS moviegoers opening weekend, only 10% were African-American. If the inclusion of Finn was supposed to broaden Star Wars appeal where African-Americans were concerned, then Disney failed. (Though to be honest I would have to look back into the older films' demographics to see if 10%, which sounds paltry, is actually an improvement.) The point I am getting at here though is that Finn's depiction especially in The Force Awakens was not endearing and IMO has not helped build inroads with African-American customers (of which I am one). Boyega is a very good actor and it's a shame he was saddled with such a pathetic character. I was happy to hear that Boyega advocated for his character behind-the-scenes, and I do think TROS handled him the best of any of the movies. I wish they had started him off the way he was in TROS, albeit with zero shouting Rey's name.

I actually liked the inclusion of Palpatine as the big bad, even though I was afraid they would mangle him like they had other iconic characters (I had a similar fear for Lando). But for the most part I was okay with Palpatine. I saw it as a case of they had written themselves into a corner. Just when Snoke got interesting, Rian Johnson killed him off. And from The Force Awakens, once Ren took off his helmet and had that temper tantrum he ceased to be a legit threat. And I couldn't buy him leading the First Order any more than I could Anakin leading the Empire (after seeing how he was depicted in the prequels, and I liked PT Anakin a lot more than Ren). Hux was always overdone and then Johnson made him into a joke character that Abrams just ran with in TROS. Pryde, was a bit too dastardly as well, but I would've preferred him, a bit more matter-of-fact though, as the main general from Episode VII on instead of Hux. He was a bit more believable in the role. Palpatine tells the audience instantly that this is a real threat. Abrams just went overboard with the Sith Fleet and all that Sith Eternal stuff. He didn't need all of that.

Granted Palpatine's plan made little sense, and the parts that did, sometimes needed more explanation (to the audience) and then were over explained (to Rey; why tell her what would happen when she struck him down?) Also, if he could create Snoke clones (why were there a vat of them?), why not just clone another body for himself? I was also okay with him having a son, but of course I want to learn more about this, and see how the novels and comics are going to make this work. What was this guy doing during the Galactic Civil War? Was his son not Force sensitive? If he wasn't, why did he let him live? And if he was, then what was the point of bringing Luke over to the dark side to be his apprentice when he had his own son that he could've groomed since birth to take on that role? Did Vader know about this kid?

Even though Ren was weak main villain, he was probably the best developed new character in the sequels, and Adam Driver did a good job with what he had to work with. But still, by the end of Episode VII I never bought this guy as a real threat and it took him three films to finally sort of beat Rey, so I felt there was little danger to the story's protagonist, from Ren. But Palpatine, yeah, now he's a threat.

I just had a thought. Okay, even though I liked Palpatine's inclusion in this film, and he's my favorite Star Wars character, but why not just bring Snoke back? He was more germane to this trilogy than Palpatine. And TROS showed he could be cloned. Why not just have another clone body for Snoke (perhaps a younger, stronger one?). The whole thing about "The Dead Speak!" at the beginning of the opening crawl could've been used for a resurrected Snoke. Further, if Snoke is back that would threaten Ren's hold on the First Order even more, because there had to be some Snoke followers still in the First Order. I guess Disney/Abrams didn't feel bringing Snoke back would get disgruntled fans back.

They could've even kept the Rey Palpatine thing with a resurrected Snoke. And it might have been more 'believable' to have had Snoke behind this secret fleet all this time.
 
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Even though Ren was weak main villain, he was probably the best developed new character in the sequels, and Adam Driver did a good job with what he had to work with.

Not that the others were bad, but I think Adam Driver did so much more with his character than anyone else. I kinda think he's the only one that approached his character as if it was Hamlet or something, so despite some poor moments in the writing Kylo seemed to have so much depth to him. In all honestly, I'd say Daisy Ridley probably brought the least.
 
Not that the others were bad, but I think Adam Driver did so much more with his character than anyone else. I kinda think he's the only one that approached his character as if it was Hamlet or something, so despite some poor moments in the writing Kylo seemed to have so much depth to him. In all honestly, I'd say Daisy Ridley probably brought the least.

Driver definitely brought something. I remember thinking when I was watching TFA how this is how Anakin should've been handled, or approached in the prequels (and I do like Hayden Christensen's performance for the most part, and the issues I have I put that on Lucas's direction). With Ridley, there just wasn't much to the Rey character for her to work with. She was bland, a block of wood, and then they kept her away from Finn who she could banter with, and they put her with a grouchy Luke and a stalkerish Ren.

Only in TROS do we get to see her also bantering with Dameron, which was good, and interacting more with Leia, Chewie, etc. We also get to see a bit more internal conflict with her and I was glad for that. Ridley finally got more to work with. It wasn't as much as she deserved, but still something. And I liked how she carried herself a lot throughout this film. She got the Jedi nobility right. I liked when she told Bliss she cared about what she thought of her, or how she promised D-O that they would not hurt him. In that sense, it reminded me of how mature ROTJ Luke had become. Though we didn't get to see much of a journey for Rey since they other films didn't do a good job of creating an arc for her.
 
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