You weren't wrong Romulan_spy, those were Snokes, not Palpies.
Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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You weren't wrong Romulan_spy, those were Snokes, not Palpies.
In old canon the empire built a heaver version of a imperial star destroyer called the alliagence class. That had similar dimensions
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Allegiance-class_battlecruiser
A lot of the old ships are actually being reasserted in to new canon.
If we assume the Empire in new canon built ships of this class. The the Sith destroyer could be modified versions of this class.
Eitherway I think the ships where built decades before but the super lasers added later.
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i stand corrected
I hate grading a movie like this, that is part of a bigger story after only seeing it once. Based on the entertainment value, sitting there watching it in the theater, I gave it an A-.
On a somber note, I was there in 1977 to see A New Hope in theaters, watching Luke, Leia and Han bust onto the scene. Today, I said farewell to them. Reminding me, that no matter what, you have to say goodbye to everything in life eventually.
A few thoughts:
I don't see anything that walks back what happened in The Last Jedi.
The movie is gorgeous. JJ Abrams is a master filmmaker when it comes to immersion in the worlds he is putting on screen.
Poe Dameron still does nothing for me.
I felt 'Rey Skywalker' was appropriate, and she represents a fine "next generation" if there is to be more movies moving forward in the timeline.
I was leery when I heard about the addition of Palpatine, but I thought it worked really well in the film.
Adam Driver is a good actor, and really made Kylo Ren his own in this film.
***
I'm sure I'll have more thoughts on it later.
On a somber note, I was there in 1977 to see A New Hope in theaters, watching Luke, Leia and Han bust onto the scene. Today, I said farewell to them. Reminding me, that no matter what, you have to say goodbye to everything in life eventually.
A few thoughts:
I don't see anything that walks back what happened in The Last Jedi.
The movie is gorgeous. JJ Abrams is a master filmmaker when it comes to immersion in the worlds he is putting on screen.
Poe Dameron still does nothing for me.
I felt 'Rey Skywalker' was appropriate, and she represents a fine "next generation" if there is to be more movies moving forward in the timeline.
I was leery when I heard about the addition of Palpatine, but I thought it worked really well in the film.
Adam Driver is a good actor, and really made Kylo Ren his own in this film.
***
I'm sure I'll have more thoughts on it later.
It does make you wonder...... Why not just clone great new bodies for himself?
In the meantime..... FINN'S BIG SECRET REVEALED!!!
https://www.joblo.com/movie-news/jj-abrams-reveals-finns-secret-from-rise-of-skywalker-spoiler
Palpy wants a more powerful body.
It why he wanted Luke to strike him down so he could possess his body and gain his raw force ability and later Rey.
My guess is Snoke original template had something that temporarily appealed fo palpatine.
Maybe the Force doesn't work so well with clones? Or its connection somehow decreases?
Finn's force sensitivity was hinted at a lot, enough I figured out it was that and not that he was in love with Rey. It almost feels like they were hinting at something in another movie (like he would go onto become the second Jedi of Rey's generation) but this is the end of the Skywalker saga and with Rey now a Skywalker... there probably is not going to be anymore to Finn's story.
The fact he was able to hold his own against Kylo ren with a lightsabre for even a couple of minutes in force awakens hinted at some sort of force ability.
TFA had several clues. From Kylo Ren stopping to stare at FN-2187 as he gets ready to depart Jakku (and then later instantly suspecting that same trooper in helping Poe escape) to the lightsaber fight at the end.
I really liked the way they revealed it in this film though. The slow build, through his conversation with Janna where he talks about believing in the Force now, and how he "just felt it" when he chose to disobey on Jakku. Right up to the final reveal where he senses Rey's death from the Falcon. Subtle, but effective.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Review
GOOD: Rey trying to maintain the legacy of the Skywalker name. For all of the desperation in TFA about finding the legend of all Jedi, Rey--after her experiences--would have appeared to be a boat lost at sea if she did not take on / carry on the connection which gave her life purpose.
According to JJA, Finn is force sensitive, hence the reason he always sensed Rey whether she was in transit or in pain. This--of course--is a tribute of sorts to TESB, where Leia (like Finn's stage here) was sensitive enough to hear Luke's call as he was clinging to the Cloud City weather vane, or in ROTJ, when Leia knew Luke escaped the Death Star II despite being untrained.
I did not particularly care if he was force sensitive, but it shuts down those who were screaming about TFA"s teasers / posters of Finn with a lightsaber, as if his using it at all was "wrong" (mm-hmm...) when at the time of the teasers, no one knew who was going to be the would-be Jedi-in-training. A former soldier/insider turning the tables on the sequel's new evil government would have been a great inverse of what Anakin did to the Jedi Order, but nope...it was not to be, so this development with Finn in TROS seems tacked on. More on that later...
BAD: Palpatine retuning at all. His appearance in TROS essentially rendered Vader's 11th hour act of redemption--saving his son by killing Palpatine in ROTJ--pointless. The original films had several unforgettable build ups to the central conflict / Luke's galaxy-changing journey, but it all came down to the one-two punch of Luke rejecting the dark side / declaring himself a Jedi, and Vader reclaiming his soul by killing the one who corrupted him (and everything else). Palpatine's death was satisfying and logical--a combination lacking in so many fantasy movies (I could name a dozen superhero films suffering from that….a discussion for another place/time). But that's all flushed down the toilet thanks to a weak sequel series needing to drag back an old Big Bad as bait for a couple of generations of SW fans for the most paper-thin of character motivations. Oh, but wait, there's more force lightning! Lightsabers! Star Destroyers with super-weapons....
Finn. In other threads, I commented on how in most of TFA and TLJ, Finn was used as an offensive, bumbling, tokenized minstrel figure (a former sanitation worker who just so happened to be a Stormtrooper) with no true identity/agency of his own (and one that should have been mindful / respectful of the audience who happens to look like him). Ultimately that is how he leaves this series despite the tacked on force sensitivity bit.
As I pointed out about Finn's origins as a character post TLJ, to the producers, it was nevermind creating what could have been a compelling parallel to real world black soldiers who either fought within the system or resigned as they felt they were in the service of a system that oppressed them (which would have added a needed in-universe argument to inspire a resistance). Nevermind how Finn--in between all of his panting and stumbling--never made a case for his own freedom other than just running away, and warning Rey (in vague terms) that the F.O. is coming / will find them.
It was never about Finn telling his story as an oppressed man in a government that the franchise handlers are still basing on the Third Reich. As noted earlier, as a former soldier/insider significantly turning the tables on the sequel's new evil government would have been a great inverse of what Anakin did to the Jedi Order (IOW, destructive on that scale), but there was no way the producers would make Finn so integral to the overall story/conflict.
He was always made to take a backseat in a story that should have been as much his as Rey's because he was part of the problem as a member of the F.O. Instead, he was there just to be "flavor" with no substance (nor any interest in giving him any) in typical Hollywood fashion. I would compare him to Enterprise's hollow Mayweather, but even that "there to be there" character was not the fool Finn was for most of his screen time.
Moving on, the one thing he had was his relationship with Rey, which--at least--gave him a drive to find an on-paper "hero" within himself (TFA), but nothing greater than that (regarding his own, aforementioned identity). With only their bond to work from, Finn and Rey's connection was one of the most natural in the SW film franchise--heads and shoulders in the believability department than the "connected-only-because-OT-reasons" Anakin and Padme.
Boyega and Ridley's performances clicked as if they had known each other for decades, and they built Rey and Finn's connection into the emotional heart of TFA, with justifiable expectations that an apparent arc would be built on / fulfilled in the following film. Instead, the Disney/Lucasfilm PTB consciously sidelined their relationship when it was clear there was some interest in bringing them together, but in the end, obviously forced reasons for their separation reminded many that those running the productions act in ways suggestive of a resistance to explore that particular kind of pairing, even in this second decade of the new century.
Some (particularly among innumerable black SW fans) believed that the PTB either bent to some audience members opposed to it, but that was an unlikely response, considering the SW PTB's well-covered public criticism if not hostility toward fans over the past few years to do exactly whatever they intended. It must be remembered that the SW PTB--who have spent the life of this sequel series bull-horning how socially progressive they are about certain people/subjects...were all in with said social progression, but took a Herculean leap over a still existing issue (possibly inspired by some resentment) of the black male/white female relationship (romantic) especially in major fantasy franchises. Its not a problem for productions such as The Walking Dead, Stranger Things, and to a lesser degree Cloak and Dagger (the latter under the Disney umbrella, but its productions have nothing to do with the SW movie productions) but in one of the entertainment industry's biggest, most visible franchises in history...it was snuffed out.
Finn's near clinical treatment of Rose in TROS speaks to the manipulation beginning in TLJ; she (Rose) was shoehorned into the film for a forced wedge between the audience and their expectations of the Finn/Rey relationship continuing to build. That said, the Rose matter was not natural at all--next to no one ever bought it, since she forced herself on him, so there was no workable way to keep that charade going into the next film, hence the way she was summarily dismissed in TROS. I imagine one could say that was one mistake acknowledged and corrected, but the rest of all things Finn...offensive and shameful.
Finally, some--including many self-described feminists--are rather pissed about Rey's confirmed heritage; some feel her "power" was in that she was--as Kylo Ren said in TLJ--a "nobody" who happened to be powerful with the force sans being part of a genetic line like the Skywalkers. They believe their emotional/ego investment was ultimately trashed, as Rey--at the end of it all--was never a self-made, empowered woman (as they put it), but the child/pawn/force-genetic beneficiary of Emperor Rickety, thus all of her alleged groundbreaking status as a female character (at least in this franchise) never existed at all.
What can you say?
Some are even hating the idea that Rey takes the Skywalker name, as if it meant she was never "good enough" to just be herself. But on that point, I disagree for the reasons in the "GOOD" section of this review. There's a code of honor and respect for legacy at stake there, so her choice was one of the very few things that made sense in TROS.
The sequel trilogy meant...what? It was a story that in terms of the Star Wars film franchise, did not need to be told as it actually says next to nothing. It lacked a meaning--a purpose. Its rare when a once-vaunted film series (as opposed to junk sequel-izing more junk like the Transformers or Resident Evil films) falls so far down the creatively challenged well.
Here's hoping Ridley & Boyega work together in the future. Anything, any subject. They deserved so much more than this.
GRADE: D.
GOOD: Rey trying to maintain the legacy of the Skywalker name. For all of the desperation in TFA about finding the legend of all Jedi, Rey--after her experiences--would have appeared to be a boat lost at sea if she did not take on / carry on the connection which gave her life purpose.
According to JJA, Finn is force sensitive, hence the reason he always sensed Rey whether she was in transit or in pain. This--of course--is a tribute of sorts to TESB, where Leia (like Finn's stage here) was sensitive enough to hear Luke's call as he was clinging to the Cloud City weather vane, or in ROTJ, when Leia knew Luke escaped the Death Star II despite being untrained.
I did not particularly care if he was force sensitive, but it shuts down those who were screaming about TFA"s teasers / posters of Finn with a lightsaber, as if his using it at all was "wrong" (mm-hmm...) when at the time of the teasers, no one knew who was going to be the would-be Jedi-in-training. A former soldier/insider turning the tables on the sequel's new evil government would have been a great inverse of what Anakin did to the Jedi Order, but nope...it was not to be, so this development with Finn in TROS seems tacked on. More on that later...
BAD: Palpatine retuning at all. His appearance in TROS essentially rendered Vader's 11th hour act of redemption--saving his son by killing Palpatine in ROTJ--pointless. The original films had several unforgettable build ups to the central conflict / Luke's galaxy-changing journey, but it all came down to the one-two punch of Luke rejecting the dark side / declaring himself a Jedi, and Vader reclaiming his soul by killing the one who corrupted him (and everything else). Palpatine's death was satisfying and logical--a combination lacking in so many fantasy movies (I could name a dozen superhero films suffering from that….a discussion for another place/time). But that's all flushed down the toilet thanks to a weak sequel series needing to drag back an old Big Bad as bait for a couple of generations of SW fans for the most paper-thin of character motivations. Oh, but wait, there's more force lightning! Lightsabers! Star Destroyers with super-weapons....
Finn. In other threads, I commented on how in most of TFA and TLJ, Finn was used as an offensive, bumbling, tokenized minstrel figure (a former sanitation worker who just so happened to be a Stormtrooper) with no true identity/agency of his own (and one that should have been mindful / respectful of the audience who happens to look like him). Ultimately that is how he leaves this series despite the tacked on force sensitivity bit.
As I pointed out about Finn's origins as a character post TLJ, to the producers, it was nevermind creating what could have been a compelling parallel to real world black soldiers who either fought within the system or resigned as they felt they were in the service of a system that oppressed them (which would have added a needed in-universe argument to inspire a resistance). Nevermind how Finn--in between all of his panting and stumbling--never made a case for his own freedom other than just running away, and warning Rey (in vague terms) that the F.O. is coming / will find them.
It was never about Finn telling his story as an oppressed man in a government that the franchise handlers are still basing on the Third Reich. As noted earlier, as a former soldier/insider significantly turning the tables on the sequel's new evil government would have been a great inverse of what Anakin did to the Jedi Order (IOW, destructive on that scale), but there was no way the producers would make Finn so integral to the overall story/conflict.
He was always made to take a backseat in a story that should have been as much his as Rey's because he was part of the problem as a member of the F.O. Instead, he was there just to be "flavor" with no substance (nor any interest in giving him any) in typical Hollywood fashion. I would compare him to Enterprise's hollow Mayweather, but even that "there to be there" character was not the fool Finn was for most of his screen time.
Moving on, the one thing he had was his relationship with Rey, which--at least--gave him a drive to find an on-paper "hero" within himself (TFA), but nothing greater than that (regarding his own, aforementioned identity). With only their bond to work from, Finn and Rey's connection was one of the most natural in the SW film franchise--heads and shoulders in the believability department than the "connected-only-because-OT-reasons" Anakin and Padme.
Boyega and Ridley's performances clicked as if they had known each other for decades, and they built Rey and Finn's connection into the emotional heart of TFA, with justifiable expectations that an apparent arc would be built on / fulfilled in the following film. Instead, the Disney/Lucasfilm PTB consciously sidelined their relationship when it was clear there was some interest in bringing them together, but in the end, obviously forced reasons for their separation reminded many that those running the productions act in ways suggestive of a resistance to explore that particular kind of pairing, even in this second decade of the new century.
Some (particularly among innumerable black SW fans) believed that the PTB either bent to some audience members opposed to it, but that was an unlikely response, considering the SW PTB's well-covered public criticism if not hostility toward fans over the past few years to do exactly whatever they intended. It must be remembered that the SW PTB--who have spent the life of this sequel series bull-horning how socially progressive they are about certain people/subjects...were all in with said social progression, but took a Herculean leap over a still existing issue (possibly inspired by some resentment) of the black male/white female relationship (romantic) especially in major fantasy franchises. Its not a problem for productions such as The Walking Dead, Stranger Things, and to a lesser degree Cloak and Dagger (the latter under the Disney umbrella, but its productions have nothing to do with the SW movie productions) but in one of the entertainment industry's biggest, most visible franchises in history...it was snuffed out.
Finn's near clinical treatment of Rose in TROS speaks to the manipulation beginning in TLJ; she (Rose) was shoehorned into the film for a forced wedge between the audience and their expectations of the Finn/Rey relationship continuing to build. That said, the Rose matter was not natural at all--next to no one ever bought it, since she forced herself on him, so there was no workable way to keep that charade going into the next film, hence the way she was summarily dismissed in TROS. I imagine one could say that was one mistake acknowledged and corrected, but the rest of all things Finn...offensive and shameful.
Finally, some--including many self-described feminists--are rather pissed about Rey's confirmed heritage; some feel her "power" was in that she was--as Kylo Ren said in TLJ--a "nobody" who happened to be powerful with the force sans being part of a genetic line like the Skywalkers. They believe their emotional/ego investment was ultimately trashed, as Rey--at the end of it all--was never a self-made, empowered woman (as they put it), but the child/pawn/force-genetic beneficiary of Emperor Rickety, thus all of her alleged groundbreaking status as a female character (at least in this franchise) never existed at all.
What can you say?
Some are even hating the idea that Rey takes the Skywalker name, as if it meant she was never "good enough" to just be herself. But on that point, I disagree for the reasons in the "GOOD" section of this review. There's a code of honor and respect for legacy at stake there, so her choice was one of the very few things that made sense in TROS.
The sequel trilogy meant...what? It was a story that in terms of the Star Wars film franchise, did not need to be told as it actually says next to nothing. It lacked a meaning--a purpose. Its rare when a once-vaunted film series (as opposed to junk sequel-izing more junk like the Transformers or Resident Evil films) falls so far down the creatively challenged well.
Here's hoping Ridley & Boyega work together in the future. Anything, any subject. They deserved so much more than this.
GRADE: D.
It really doesn't, because Vader still carried out the act, redeeming himself.
Just saw it. Solid A. Would have been an A+ had a certain side character been given more than one line to say.
Overall, this is a deeply satisfying conclusion to the story. I have been there quite literally since opening night in 1977. I laughed and cried and cheered.
Leia’s part in the movie was handled with dignity and grace. They did the best they could with what they had.
The negative critics, while entitled to their opinion, I believe are dead wrong. I cannot wait to see this again.
Overall, this is a deeply satisfying conclusion to the story. I have been there quite literally since opening night in 1977. I laughed and cried and cheered.
Leia’s part in the movie was handled with dignity and grace. They did the best they could with what they had.
The negative critics, while entitled to their opinion, I believe are dead wrong. I cannot wait to see this again.
Agreed. I saw the original STAR WARS in 1977 and I loved that Palpatine's return, and that he have contingency plans within contingency plans.
Snoke for me was always just a bad stand-in and a very generic "evil guy". I love that JJ brought Palpatine back, and gave him a central role in the finale.
The real problem I had with TLJ was the character assassination they did to Luke by having him want to kill his nephew instead of trying to redeem him. That was a big aspect of Luke's character, IE that he could see the good in people and find a way to bring it out. Vader killed many Jedi and billions of people, yet Luke still managed to see good and him and redeem him in the end.
So yeah, TLJ just plain sucked, and I was really happy that while JJ Abrams didn't reconn TLJ out of existence, he explain enough of it away, that you could really skip it, and just watch "The Force Awakens" followed by "The Rise of Skywalker" and really wouldn't miss anything story wise with regard to the characters.
I also like how JJ Abrams handless the 'one who will bring balance to the force' prophecy. Rei does that because she is a Palpatine and born with a genetic pre-disposition evidenced when she took out the transport; yet she was trained by Luke and Leia; and took to the light side of the force and the Jedi way - and lastly in taking the Skywalker name, she in the end does balance the light and dark sides of the Force. So yes, for better or worse she is, "The One".
After seeing "The Rise of Skywalker" I give it an A.
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Edited because I confused the titles "The Last Jedi" and The Rise of Skywalker" in a couple of key paragraphs. I'm getting old.
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YES! Wether or not he succeeded or not doesn't matter. His CHOICE is what is important. He redeemed himself by choosing to sacrifice himself to save his son. The Chosen One ended the Sith oppression....For a while. Because nature abhorse a vacuum. No matter who won in ROTJ, the other side would find a new champion. Because, to quote another franchise..... Live finds a way......
Just got back from seeing it. I give it a B. It was far more entertaining of a ride than the previous entry and the main characters all had their moments to shine. I even misted up a bit in certain moments(those that have seen it know what I'm talking about). What keeps me from giving it a A is the ending. It felt very anticlimatic. Most specifically....
I still think that the original idea was for Snoke to be doing all this, but Abrams had to pull Sidious out of the grave due to Johnston wasting Snoke in TLJ. Still, despite the ending, I think it was a very solid movie and I highly recommend it. It certainly isn't the stinker that the critics are making it out to be. Everyone I know that has seen it loves it.
The Emperors rambling while he sucked out life from Rey and Ren. Then he goes on about being the "true" emperor. It was probably the third switch to what his real plan was. Was it to kill Rey? Was it to bring her to him so she could kill him and inherit all the powers of the Sith? Or was is to suck her life out and be reborn? Maybe I need another watch to understand it all.
I always said that Luke's arc in TLJ made sense. I'm not going to bother finding the post I made back then..... But in essence...
Luke was such a damaged heroic character from the beginning. He was this young kid, who was always lived by others. His uncle and aunt wanted nothing more than for him to be a farmer. He wanted more. Dreamed of big things. Then this hermit comes along, spinning dreams of him being as good as a magic-like warrior like the father he never knew. Suddenly, he's part of a rebellion. Blew up a murdermoon and saved trillions. Atop that, the ghost of the one person who wanted more from him, tells him to train with a person who is sketchy at best. Then, suddenly.... his dad isn't dead but an evil dictator dude and the people he trusted lied to him. The same people that now want him to kill his dad AND rebuild something he didn't even knew existed three years ago.....Who also never bothered to tell him that a woman he has known for a while is his sister. Yeah we knew, but chose to keep the lie going.....
Luke never had a live for himself. Only an existence forced onto him by others. And now, when he finally thinks things are going right...... A child. A boy. Like him. But also so much like his father Annikan. And with all the fears and doubts that have been plaguing him all his live, he doesn't know what to do and chooses......poorly.
Luke's story in the OT and ST makes perfect fucking sense from a real point of view. Fans just wanted something different, because they wanted him to be more heroic. Luke is the perfect example of how the views of what everyone around us wants from us for our future affect us, while in the mean time we forget to define a path for ourselves.
I'm not a TLJ fan. But Luke's story was fucking on point and an amazing conclusion for such a tragic character.
I disagree. Luke lived the life he always dreamed of. A farm boy yearning to get away, to help in the fight against the Empire. Over the next few years he grew into a confident, skilled man who knew who he was and where he came from.
Luke brought his father back into the light after decades of living in the dark. He willingly gave himself over to save him. To consider murdering a sleeping boy because he just might have Dark Side predilections...I find "a poor choice" to be a massive understatement.
That said, Luke's storyline is far from my biggest problem with that movie.
I assume you mean TFA followed by TROS? (TLJ already follows TFA.) But even then, I dunno...I think people might just wonder how Luke Skywalker died.
I'm sure you mean The Rise of Skywalker.
But, I see this point of view, because I do the same with Empire.
I was looking forward to seeing Supreme Leader Ren as the main antagonist. By killing Snoke, I believe, the character earned it. Bringing back Palpatine was nothing but cheap damage control. Not that I believe there was ever any damage there in the first place, but someone up there at Disney must have thought so.
