Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[Tosk]

Whether or not the Finn/Rose subplot is justified or needed or whatever, doesn't mean it was executed well. I hate when the defense of something is basically just, "You don't get it, let me explain it to you in simple terms..." The response to a film isn't always logical, and sometimes people find a film lacking for reasons they can't articulate so it's easier to pick at the more obvious stuff. Trying to point out that those complaints are supposedly invalid doesn't change how they feel. And it's not just because people didn't understand, or because they hate change.

For my money, there's a lot of criticism aimed at TLJ. Some legit, some less so. But a movie with problems always reveals itself, even if some fans try to "prove" that it isn't.

ESB/ANH
ROTJ
R1
TFA
TLJ
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

 

[DigificWriter]

Most of people's "problems" with TLJ actually aren't problematic, which is why they're being addressed and refuted.

 

[Venardhi]

They may not be problematic to you, but that doesn't mean they aren't problematic to me, or many others. I'm bothered by technical/character inconsistencies that probably wash right over you. I'm bothered my structural problems that the majority likely overlook or shrug at. They're still problems.

To go very hyperbolic, just because the majority of Americans weren't bothered by racism in the supposed "golden age" of the 50s and 60s doesn't mean it wasn't a problem.

 

[fireproof78]

Whelp, time for me to build up my mountain and prepare to die on it-I thought it was fantastic. I was very interest in every character arc, from Poe, to Finn, to Rey, Rose, Leia and Luke, especially Luke. I was highly intrigued, and a little suprised by a lot of the turns of events, from Luke's decision that led to Ben's fall, as well as Snoke's manipulation of Rey, then Kylo's own betrayal of his master, again.

Are there problems? Yes, and I think Poe's is the weakest and most transparent of them all. The bombing run at the beginning felt very unnecessary, Poe's constant head butting with Holdo was almost distracting, and Leia's injury seemed oddly handled. Really, really annoyed that the First Order is a galactic superpower and apparently the New Republic has scattered to the four winds.

Overall, I gave it an A+ because I thought the characters actually changed and developed in a way that I found thoroughly engaging. It was beautifully shot, with a nice balance between serious moments, and genuine fun moments, with several laugh out loud moments that I enjoyed with others in the theater.

Luke's passing was also well handled.

 

[Trekkin]

But a movie with problems always reveals itself,

Putting Star Wars completely aside for a sec - literally every movie has ‘problems’.

Which means that statement is either very profound and applicable, or entirely meaningless.

Or both.

Really, really annoyed that the First Order is a galactic superpower

That was one thing that I did think flowed pretty badly from TFA.

In TFA, the FO were basically presented as a relatively small force. Theyre dangerous to civilians, yes. But their recruitment of child soldiers etc were pretty obviously meant to bring groups like Daesh, Kony etc to mind, and at the beginning of the movie they’re explicitly a foil for the original Rebellion. As Hux himself put it, The New Republic’s mistake was meant to lie in underestimating the FO’s resolve and access to resources, not their sheer numbers.

Yet TLJ is apparently set days later at most, and they suddenly have the support to take over all worlds in entire galaxies through coercion or sheer force. It’s like Daesh instantly conquering the world if the US was taken out of commission.

Of course, the FO could just be big-noting their chances. For all we know, the next movie could start with them getting an ass whoopin for annoying the Hutts.

 

[Campe]

My ranking:

ANH
ESB
TFA
TLJ
ROTJ
R1
TPM
ROTS
AOTC

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Luke does what Obi-Wan did: he chooses to become "one with the Force", but his exact motivations are intentionally left unclear.

I have a very strong suspicion that the blowback regarding Luke's death is being driven in large part by the pride-derived hypocrisy of fans turning on Rey as a character simply because she's not connected to any important bloodline and by the knowledge that Carrie Fisher's death now leaves us without any of the "OT 3".

Yes, because these morons expected Hamill, Fisher, Ford, and Williams to be "making these movies 'till the end of time' ".

Ok, either way it's still a great final moment for Luke.

At that moment in the theater, I wanted to say 'The Son of the Son of the Suns is gone!' but I didn't do it.

 

[Blue_Trek]

As you can tell by my avatar I am a SW a fan first, and Star Trek fan second.

I liked TLJ as movie lots of eye candy, saw it on IMAX too. As a Star War movie with Luke Skywalker I do not.
And most fans seems to agree look at RT it is now down to 50% fan rating, it is getting nuked worse than TPM which is actually a better Star Wars film. Look back at what Lucas said he said he made TPM for kids and ROTS for adults.
An amazing opportunity existed like a hockey player on a breakaway with no goalie and somehow he can't score, what shame. Sure it will make a boatload of money. But I am less excited for #9. Honestly if they just would have put Timothy Zahns first Trilogy to screen with few modifications it would have been better.
I am sad for the fans this happened.

 

[fireproof78]

I am sad for the fans this happened.

What about the fans who like it?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Honestly if they just would have put Timothy Zahn's first Trilogy to screen with few modifications it would have been better.
I am sad for the fans this happened.

Nobody, but NOBODY is going to put that trilogy to film; for one thing, most of the principal actors (Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams, Daniels, Baker, Mayhew, Lawson, etc.) are too old to be doing the action shown in them (which happens only five years after the events of ROTJ), for another, nobody else in the general public outside of the most die-hard fans even knows who Joruus C'baoth, Mara Jade, Daala, or Thrawn is, and last but not least, nobody but nobody's going to be putting licensed novels onto the screen to please said subsection of fans simply because said fans loved said novels-it would be like Paramount and CBS bringing the novels with Mackenzie Calhoun to the TV and movie screens simply because said novels were popular (and an action figure of him was made), or to bring the Star Trek: Titan novels to the screen simply because of the popularity of TNG. The fans have to learn that they aren't the owners of the franchise (or the ones that dictate it), they're just the consumers, and they can find something else to patronize if they don't like the current offerings.

I've always enjoyed the Ewoks, so I'm always amused by how much fans whinge about them (likewise the Porgs). Probably helps that my first exposure to Star Wars was the animated Ewoks series as a kid.

The Porgs didn't participate in the final battle like the Ewoks did, or take over the last half of the movie, which is why nobody really hates them. These so-called 'fans' just want their precious EU/Legends, and they didn't get it, so they're pissed off, and their anger with the movie's become more widespread than the love for it due to the Internet and social media.

 

[Trekkin]

As you can tell by my avatar I am a SW a fan first, and Star Trek fan second.

I liked TLJ as movie lots of eye candy, saw it on IMAX too. As a Star War movie with Luke Skywalker I do not.
And most fans seems to agree look at RT it is now down to 50% fan rating, it is getting nuked worse than TPM which is actually a better Star Wars film. Look back at what Lucas said he said he made TPM for kids and ROTS for adults.
An amazing opportunity existed like a hockey player on a breakaway with no goalie and somehow he can't score, what shame. Sure it will make a boatload of money. But I am less excited for #9. Honestly if they just would have put Timothy Zahns first Trilogy to screen with few modifications it would have been better.
I am sad for the fans this happened.

I’m a fan, I might have some issues with the movie, but nothing worth feeling sad about.

Although funnily enough, never been a big fan of Thrawn. Zahn’s trilogy were alright, but it was only ever noteable to me for not being near as bad compared to so many of its peers. They were just...fine. Readable. Didn’t induce a facepalm into its pages at any point.

Which is a pretty backhanded compliment. Fortunately, I will now say something entirely positive about the EU to make up for it: Kieron Gillen’s run on the Darth Vader comic was aces. Everyone should go read it.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

What about the fans who like it?

Of this, they have no real answer, of course. And it's not just the fans that love it, but the critics too, which must really burn their britches.

 

[USS Firefly]

What about the fans who like it?

I really disliked this new trilogie, especially that the big 3 had to die.

But If you love the movies that's fine to me.
My wife is going to TLJ tomorrow and I hope she has a great evening, If she likes the movie we can maybe have a good discussion.

To me I don't really care If other people like the new trilogie, while I put them bellow the prequel, everybody has a right to their own opinion.

 

[Tosk]

The Porgs didn't participate in the final battle like the Ewoks did, or take over the last half of the movie, which is why nobody really hates them.

I hate them. But not Ewoks. Go figure.

 

[Venardhi]

The Porgs are an amusing window dressing at most. FFS, they're Salacious Crumb, or the Mouse Droids, or Jawas at most. They're part of the grand Star Wars tradition of filling the world with details that make it feel like more than a set for the characters to pass through.

 

[Campe]

I really disliked this new trilogie, especially that the big 3 had to die.

Everyone dies at some point. And the Star Wars saga is designed as a multi-generational tale. It was bound to happen at some point. I don’t like that Han, Luke and Leia had to die either, but the sequel trilogy isn’t really for us (fans of the originals). They really threw us a bone by including as much of the original cast as they have. But it’s really about the next generation of characters. And the next generation of fans.

I stand to believe that that’s the underlying reason why a lot of fans are so upset. I think people just weren’t prepared for that.

 

[USS Firefly]

Everyone dies at some point. And the Star Wars saga is designed as a multi-generational tale. It was bound to happen at some point. I don’t like that Han, Luke and Leia had to die either, but the sequel trilogy isn’t really for us (fans of the originals). They really threw us a bone by including as much of the original cast as they have. But it’s really about the next generation of characters. And the next generation of fans.

I stand to believe that that’s the underlying reason why a lot of fans are so upset. I think people just weren’t prepared for that.

I understand but personally I would have prevered not to show the old characters.
Just mention that Luke is looking for new Jedi potentials.
And space should be big, so it's not strange not to see him or the others.

O well, maybe over a few years we get a reboot and everything starts over

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Whether or not the Finn/Rose subplot is justified or needed or whatever, doesn't mean it was executed well. I hate when the defense of something is basically just, "You don't get it, let me explain it to you in simple terms..." The response to a film isn't always logical, and sometimes people find a film lacking for reasons they can't articulate so it's easier to pick at the more obvious stuff.

However, it suggests that what is wrong may not be that subplot itself, but something else either internal to the story, or something about how it fits in with the rest of the film. As I suggested, the bigger problem with this film is that the chase is ridiculous long, sucking up a lot of oxygen. That in itself makes any side stories seem pointless.

 

[crookeddy]

I seem to have been wrong with my prediction of Johnson being fired. https://geektyrant.com/news/rian-jo...ginal-star-wars-trilogy-this-year-in-scotland

 

[Campe]

I seem to have been wrong with my prediction of Johnson being fired. https://geektyrant.com/news/rian-jo...ginal-star-wars-trilogy-this-year-in-scotland

I'm not sure why that would ever be a consideration. Kathleen Kennedy loves the guy, and his film has already brought in $1bil worldwide. He may have pissed off some fans, but I would be shocked if they didn't see Solo or Ep9.