Calm down.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens Reviews (SPOILER-FREE THREAD)
- Thread starter Tom Hendricks
- Start date
Calm down.
Says the person justifying space nazis.
To be fair though, the senate was kind of asking for it. Did you see how they designed that building? You can't really expect a warm-blooded Imperial remnant bent on conquest not to incinerate it.
The NR are the ones at fault for believing they could live in peace with a portion of the Galaxy under the control of the First Order and believing they would not want to restablish their Empire once they had time to rebuild their forces. Obviously we don't know what drove the NR to decide to abandon finishing off the Empire Remnants and believe peace had been secured but they were wrong. As for Leia, she may be seen as sort of a terrorist in the eyes of NR, who they fear could start a 2nd war (even though it's already begun and they don't realise it) but one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Could you imagine the allies at the end of WW2 leaving part of the Nazi regime intact and just letting it control a small corner of the world? No because that would be stupid. The is also no signs that the Resistance has engaged the First Order in any first strike combat missions and appear to be only acting as a Rogue intelligence agency. The First Order struck first at the start of TFA and then went further by destroying planets within Republic space including the new capital.
You would assume that in The Last Jedi that the Resistance and the Republic are one force engaging directly the forces of The First Order because anything else would be stupid.
It blew up a few planets, Surly they have a big fleet of ships spread out through the Galaxy otherwise.
So Its more like episode 4, 5, 6?
Even though it was supposed to have a huge fleet that even the First Order was afraid of?
I could see the Republic having all or nearly all of their large ships in one systems simply because they don't need them other than as a deterrence force. Hyperspace is such that they can get about anyplace relatively quickly, so when there is a hot spot, the fleet jumps into action. But if the beams of death come out of hyperspace...where can you go? Do you even have time for evasive action?
Several large ships are destroyed in orbit of just one of the planets. If the other planets held the actual fleet bases, well that kind of ruins the fleet in being. Sort of like the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor, or the British attacking Taranto, except instead of a large scale fighter assault, it is giant beams that blow up the entire area with no survivors.
Several large ships are destroyed in orbit of just one of the planets. If the other planets held the actual fleet bases, well that kind of ruins the fleet in being. Sort of like the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor, or the British attacking Taranto, except instead of a large scale fighter assault, it is giant beams that blow up the entire area with no survivors.
The overly large expensive ships that really only are useful in war do tend to stay home during peacetime. Sometimes only so you don't have to keep it fully crewed with the thousands of people needed to operate it.
Sure they might go out every once in a while. Show the flag. But most of the time they are in home waters, or even just at dock to keep expenses down.
Today's US Navy tends to have the aircraft carriers out a lot, but that is because of a combination of ongoing conflicts and a massive reduction in the number of carriers the fleet has. At the end of the Second World War, the United States Navy had around 100 aircraft carriers of all types. Most of these were retired, sold, or placed in reserve following the war. Around 20-30 would be retained or reactivated into the 1960s as larger carriers were built to replace then. By the 1970s their were only a dozen or so of those old carriers left in service, or in mothballs just in case. By the 1980s the US was operating 15 or so carriers and had plans to maintain that number with new construction and retirements.
But after budget cuts, cost overruns, and other problems, today the US Navy has 10 carriers. And while the plan was to keep 11 in service, delays in funding will basically mean realistically it will be a 10 carrier navy for the next 50 years, at most, as the retirement age of the oldest ships are starting to come up faster than the replacement can be finished. By the time the last of the 10 new Gerald R. Ford class ships is completed around 2065 if might be replacing the USS Gerald R. Ford (commissioning this year), reducing the fleet to 9 carriers. around the 2050s or 2060 as the last Nimitz-class carriers retire by 2060 and 50 years of service.
There is always at least one carrier out of service for one reason or another.
For the Republic Navy, that would be most of their Mon Cal Cruisers and similar ships would be back home if there was nothing for them to do that couldn't be done by say a frigate.
Sure they might go out every once in a while. Show the flag. But most of the time they are in home waters, or even just at dock to keep expenses down.
Today's US Navy tends to have the aircraft carriers out a lot, but that is because of a combination of ongoing conflicts and a massive reduction in the number of carriers the fleet has. At the end of the Second World War, the United States Navy had around 100 aircraft carriers of all types. Most of these were retired, sold, or placed in reserve following the war. Around 20-30 would be retained or reactivated into the 1960s as larger carriers were built to replace then. By the 1970s their were only a dozen or so of those old carriers left in service, or in mothballs just in case. By the 1980s the US was operating 15 or so carriers and had plans to maintain that number with new construction and retirements.
But after budget cuts, cost overruns, and other problems, today the US Navy has 10 carriers. And while the plan was to keep 11 in service, delays in funding will basically mean realistically it will be a 10 carrier navy for the next 50 years, at most, as the retirement age of the oldest ships are starting to come up faster than the replacement can be finished. By the time the last of the 10 new Gerald R. Ford class ships is completed around 2065 if might be replacing the USS Gerald R. Ford (commissioning this year), reducing the fleet to 9 carriers. around the 2050s or 2060 as the last Nimitz-class carriers retire by 2060 and 50 years of service.
There is always at least one carrier out of service for one reason or another.
For the Republic Navy, that would be most of their Mon Cal Cruisers and similar ships would be back home if there was nothing for them to do that couldn't be done by say a frigate.
Of course it is. They have half a galaxy under their control. Peace is relative, so there would always be need to have ships protecting frontiers and pushing back warlords and the like. On top of that, thousands of individual planets would still have their own ships and forces that could be put into service in case of a war.
They have had a relative peace for about three decades. Their capital ships exist basically as a potential counter to any world in the Republic. The Republic is not well know for expanding, so it isn't going to be pushing its frontiers. Any remaining warlords that didn't fall back to the First Order's territory would have been mopped up a very long time ago, since the treaty with the Empire forbids the making star destroyers. It is the relative safety of the Unknown Regions and nearly 30 years of complacency (peace) that allows the First Order to even operate Star Destroyers. That and the First Order has been keeping it low key up until TFA. Making sure there are no witnesses. Those few reports that get out are considered speculation or war mongering by the Republic Senate.
The remaining use of New Republic forces can be handled by the smaller warship. Frigates and corvettes along with the highly prized Starfighter Wings of the Republic, can deal with pirates, smuggling, and most known threats in the Galaxy, much like they could before the Clone Wars. That 1,000 years of peace were the Old Republic had no real standing military, but a bunch of planetary force and the Jedi. Were the largest warships in the Old Republic were around a third the length of an Imperial Star Destroyer and much less than that in volume (the old Republic Dreadnoughts). The age where the Corporations had more powerful warships converted from freighters than the Old Republic.
The New Republic might have a handful of capital ships that were on patrol, or showing the flag around the galaxy. But because they were a Fleet in Being, their job was to exist. No one would dare threaten the Republic because if someone tried, the Fleet would move out and strike as a large mass. They wouldn't follow the tactics of the Empire and rule through fear by having Star Destroyers that floated above a city to remind people who is in charge. Instead the Republic would have a central fleet ready in case something happened. With hyperspace as it is, they would get their in a reasonable amount of time if there was something that actually needed a Fleet response. Everything else could be taken care of by the local frigates and Starfighters.
The remaining use of New Republic forces can be handled by the smaller warship. Frigates and corvettes along with the highly prized Starfighter Wings of the Republic, can deal with pirates, smuggling, and most known threats in the Galaxy, much like they could before the Clone Wars. That 1,000 years of peace were the Old Republic had no real standing military, but a bunch of planetary force and the Jedi. Were the largest warships in the Old Republic were around a third the length of an Imperial Star Destroyer and much less than that in volume (the old Republic Dreadnoughts). The age where the Corporations had more powerful warships converted from freighters than the Old Republic.
The New Republic might have a handful of capital ships that were on patrol, or showing the flag around the galaxy. But because they were a Fleet in Being, their job was to exist. No one would dare threaten the Republic because if someone tried, the Fleet would move out and strike as a large mass. They wouldn't follow the tactics of the Empire and rule through fear by having Star Destroyers that floated above a city to remind people who is in charge. Instead the Republic would have a central fleet ready in case something happened. With hyperspace as it is, they would get their in a reasonable amount of time if there was something that actually needed a Fleet response. Everything else could be taken care of by the local frigates and Starfighters.
That doesn't sound much like a galactic republic only a generation removed from totalitarian rule. Look how much war we have on just one planet, constantly, ongoing. It is just not plausible that the nature of wicked, selfish and greedy creatures is so easily suppressed across a galaxy. A third of the fleet I could maybe buy, but why would you have your entire military parked in the same place as your political capitol? Shouldn't each representative have their own escort anyways? Strategically it just doesn't make any sense, especially when you live in a galaxy that has twice in recent memory known the destructive power of a superweapon like the Death Star.
Two Death Stars that capital ships are completely ineffective against.
I did not say the entire fleet. I said the capital ships...the cruiser, the carriers, the star destroyers, and any even larger ships like the Star Dreadnaught (usually called Super Star Destroyers)
The smaller ships would be the ones doing the work around the galaxy because unless you are fighting a war, or actively attempting to oppress a population, you really don't been something the size of a cruiser to do anything in the Star Wars galaxy. Everything else can be done by a frigate or less. And due to the Republic and the preceding Rebel Alliance used hyperspace capable Starfighters heavily, those usually are enough to deal with pirates. Escorting dignitaries was usually left to corvettes and fighters due to their speed in the Old Republic. Even during the Clone Wars it was not all that common to send a Star Destroyer for anyone that wasn't fighting the war. I'm pretty sure only the Chancellor rated that protection and he usually went via a shuttle craft or corvette with only fighter escorts.
Unless the pirate faction is huge, than they might send out a pair of cruiser to deal with it. But if the Republic is taking the stance Remember that a frigate in Star Wars is around the size of our present day Super Carriers or larger even. The cruisers don't start to earn that name until they are around twice the length or more than today's Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.
It should also be noted that the Capital planet was not the only planet destroyed. At least five worlds were destroyed at once. That is well beyond anything a Death Star could do, nor anything the Republic might expect to ever face. It would be logical for the First Order to have targeted the capital and the major shipyards or staging areas for their first shot, and eliminate the majority of the Republic Fleet and the Senate. Far more effective than the Death Star and a great equalizer compared to sending in the First Order's Star Destroyers, which were likely still heavily out numbered by the Republic Navy before that hyperspace multi-shot.
I did not say the entire fleet. I said the capital ships...the cruiser, the carriers, the star destroyers, and any even larger ships like the Star Dreadnaught (usually called Super Star Destroyers)
The smaller ships would be the ones doing the work around the galaxy because unless you are fighting a war, or actively attempting to oppress a population, you really don't been something the size of a cruiser to do anything in the Star Wars galaxy. Everything else can be done by a frigate or less. And due to the Republic and the preceding Rebel Alliance used hyperspace capable Starfighters heavily, those usually are enough to deal with pirates. Escorting dignitaries was usually left to corvettes and fighters due to their speed in the Old Republic. Even during the Clone Wars it was not all that common to send a Star Destroyer for anyone that wasn't fighting the war. I'm pretty sure only the Chancellor rated that protection and he usually went via a shuttle craft or corvette with only fighter escorts.
Unless the pirate faction is huge, than they might send out a pair of cruiser to deal with it. But if the Republic is taking the stance Remember that a frigate in Star Wars is around the size of our present day Super Carriers or larger even. The cruisers don't start to earn that name until they are around twice the length or more than today's Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.
It should also be noted that the Capital planet was not the only planet destroyed. At least five worlds were destroyed at once. That is well beyond anything a Death Star could do, nor anything the Republic might expect to ever face. It would be logical for the First Order to have targeted the capital and the major shipyards or staging areas for their first shot, and eliminate the majority of the Republic Fleet and the Senate. Far more effective than the Death Star and a great equalizer compared to sending in the First Order's Star Destroyers, which were likely still heavily out numbered by the Republic Navy before that hyperspace multi-shot.
Similar threads
