^ If so, then there's (at the very least) an awakening of her latent powers.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)
- Thread starter sttngfan1701d
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I enjoyed it and would give it a 7-7.5-8/10 (I'm not sure if I'm under rating it or not, which is why I'm a bit loose with the rating). Good return to the universe, maybe an overly safe film. I enjoy most of the new characters and the return of familiar ones (though Fisher was a bit stiff). One thing I was sure I'd hate was the ball droid, ended up being one of the most expressive characters in the film. Good action and fight scenes, well shot, so there are quite a number of positives.
I did feel like I missed out on a bit between the two films, but maybe that's just a hangover from formerly being into the EU.
I wouldn't be much of a fan if I didn't have a bunch of (mostly unnecessary) nitpicks.
*I didn't get why the Resistance was a thing. The Republic apparently rules the galaxy so why isn't it out there dealing with the First Order? Oh, and what's up with the random planet they were on, why not Coruscant?
*Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren...what the hell is a "Ren"? I'm assuming him and Snook aren't Sith because no one is a Darth. Plus are there still a bunch of them or is Kylo the only one?
*Snook is definitely not a giant right? It's just the holoprojection?
*Why did the First Order take a janitor to a village murdering mission? And why did that old guy have part of a map to Luke Skywalker? Why is there even a map in the first place?
*I guess it wouldn't be a Star Wars movie without a random monster, but the random monster scenes were...I don't know...if they didn't exist would it matter?
*Can the galaxy gun...I mean Starkiller base move? It's impressive and all that, but if it can't once that sun is gone it would be useless.
*On that note, why waste it on the Rebel base? Just send that Star Destroyer, the Resistance only seemed to have a dozen X-Wings. Though I guess the X-Wings did seem super powerful, but not planet killer needed powerful.
*Why is there a Silver Stormtrooper and what does it do?
*Is a sign of the dark side a lack of OH&S? Are safety railings particularly light side?
Some of those I expect to be fleshed out in later movies, so I'm not overly concerned about them, it's more of an impatience wanting to know everything immediately thing. Nitpicks aside, I am looking forward to the next movie.
Oh, one final thing, I thought the ending was a bit over done. They should have just gone straight to the credits after Luke turned around and lowered his hood. The multiple cuts from his face to Rey's, to the lightsabre, back to faces and then the spinning aerial shot, all with no one saying anything was too drawn out and felt a bit awkward.
I did feel like I missed out on a bit between the two films, but maybe that's just a hangover from formerly being into the EU.
I wouldn't be much of a fan if I didn't have a bunch of (mostly unnecessary) nitpicks.
*I didn't get why the Resistance was a thing. The Republic apparently rules the galaxy so why isn't it out there dealing with the First Order? Oh, and what's up with the random planet they were on, why not Coruscant?
*Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren...what the hell is a "Ren"? I'm assuming him and Snook aren't Sith because no one is a Darth. Plus are there still a bunch of them or is Kylo the only one?
*Snook is definitely not a giant right? It's just the holoprojection?
*Why did the First Order take a janitor to a village murdering mission? And why did that old guy have part of a map to Luke Skywalker? Why is there even a map in the first place?
*I guess it wouldn't be a Star Wars movie without a random monster, but the random monster scenes were...I don't know...if they didn't exist would it matter?
*Can the galaxy gun...I mean Starkiller base move? It's impressive and all that, but if it can't once that sun is gone it would be useless.
*On that note, why waste it on the Rebel base? Just send that Star Destroyer, the Resistance only seemed to have a dozen X-Wings. Though I guess the X-Wings did seem super powerful, but not planet killer needed powerful.
*Why is there a Silver Stormtrooper and what does it do?
*Is a sign of the dark side a lack of OH&S? Are safety railings particularly light side?
Some of those I expect to be fleshed out in later movies, so I'm not overly concerned about them, it's more of an impatience wanting to know everything immediately thing. Nitpicks aside, I am looking forward to the next movie.
Oh, one final thing, I thought the ending was a bit over done. They should have just gone straight to the credits after Luke turned around and lowered his hood. The multiple cuts from his face to Rey's, to the lightsabre, back to faces and then the spinning aerial shot, all with no one saying anything was too drawn out and felt a bit awkward.
..... annnnnnnd (aside from having demonstrated that the premise itself has an erroneous foundation) it's worth pointing out that the moment included trying to save his son from the Dark Side, and therefore save countless others who might fall victim to his son (as Jake succinctly states above).
Honestly, categorizing Han's actions as "selfish" misses the entire point of the scene.
I agree on this point. Hans actions weren't selfish at all. They were stupid though. Yeah its his kid but come on he just mentioned minutes before to Finn that they had to save the galaxy. The Death Star III had already obliterated a few worlds. He didn't have time to talk to his evil kid. All Han did was make Kylo stronger and even though Star Killer base was destroyed the dark side is now stronger. All Han did was make things more difficult.
I mean, it's true the "rewards" of having Force users on your side aren't "clearly defined," but it's made clear from the outset that they are very real and that both sides are behaving as if that's the case and in fact each side's primary objective. Converting Kylo back to the good side, especially as he's apparently leading a whole order of Dark Side users, is in terms of the setting a clear benefit in a way that simply splatting him isn't. Leaving aside the whole question of not wanting to blow your own kid up.
I do think more could have been done to make it clear why the stakes are about the Force even with something like Starkiller Base in the picture. We're told this but not really shown it apart from a few vague lines about "balance in the Force" and "despair in the galaxy."
I do think more could have been done to make it clear why the stakes are about the Force even with something like Starkiller Base in the picture. We're told this but not really shown it apart from a few vague lines about "balance in the Force" and "despair in the galaxy."
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You know the fact that the star map was still relevant after roughly a decade and a half shows that old Jedi sure do like to stay in one place.
Then again they're also always seen to be waiting for something or someone. I can see now why patience is near the top of their virtues.
Then again they're also always seen to be waiting for something or someone. I can see now why patience is near the top of their virtues.
My Thoughts:
I loved it. I know it did replay a lot of the plot points from ANH, but I thought the specifics played out differently enough that I wasn't bothered by it.
I came in knowing about the big Ben/Kylo reveal from looking around online, and honestly I think it was actually more interesting knowing. I had also heard about Han's death, and the fact that Luke wasn't in the movie until the end. I didn't know exactly how those thing played out though, so they still had a pretty big impact.
I loved the new characters. Rey and Finn were both great. I was a little disappointed we didn't get more stuff with Poe. I was surprised that Rey was the Force sensitive one and not Finn. After all of the shots of Finn with the lightsaber I had assumed that meant he was the Force user.
I loved Han's role in the movie. It was a nice last story for the character, and the scene with him and Ben leading up to his death was a great moment.
We didn't get a ton of stuff Leia, but what we did get was nice.
Kylo/Ben was a good villain. He wasn't at the level of his grandfather, but his backstory was enough to make him more interesting than the prequel villains. Hux and Phasma were pretty cool. Snoke was interesting, I'm very curious to learn more about him.
While it did barrow a lot from ANH, the story was still good. I loved Rey, and Finn's arc. The Starkiller Base weapon was an interesting step up from the Death Stars. I was pretty surprised how much of the movie was focused on the search for Luke, I had expected that to just be a subplot while the main focus was on Starkiller Base and Kylo.
This one had some of my favorite action scenes in the entire trilogy. I loved the Ben vs Finn/Ben vs Rey duel. I loved Rey struggling at first and then connecting to the Force and turning things around. She should really be able to kick ass once she's been trained.
I hadn't heard about the Falcon's first appearance, so that was a big surprise for me. I knew as soon Rey said the ship was garbage, it would the the Millenium Falcon, but it was still a fun moment.
I was disappointed we didn't get more with the new Republic.
Hopefully having Luke around in the next movie means we'll learn more about what happened with Ben and Snoke.
I still think Rey is a Skywalker. Right now I'm thinking that after what happened with Ben that Luke decided he was to much of a danger to be around her. The only thing I wonder about is why he didn't just give her to Han and Leia to raise. Did he possibly also blame them for what happened with Ben? After they were so mysterious with her family, I'm convinced she has to be somebody important.
I loved it. I know it did replay a lot of the plot points from ANH, but I thought the specifics played out differently enough that I wasn't bothered by it.
I came in knowing about the big Ben/Kylo reveal from looking around online, and honestly I think it was actually more interesting knowing. I had also heard about Han's death, and the fact that Luke wasn't in the movie until the end. I didn't know exactly how those thing played out though, so they still had a pretty big impact.
I loved the new characters. Rey and Finn were both great. I was a little disappointed we didn't get more stuff with Poe. I was surprised that Rey was the Force sensitive one and not Finn. After all of the shots of Finn with the lightsaber I had assumed that meant he was the Force user.
I loved Han's role in the movie. It was a nice last story for the character, and the scene with him and Ben leading up to his death was a great moment.
We didn't get a ton of stuff Leia, but what we did get was nice.
Kylo/Ben was a good villain. He wasn't at the level of his grandfather, but his backstory was enough to make him more interesting than the prequel villains. Hux and Phasma were pretty cool. Snoke was interesting, I'm very curious to learn more about him.
While it did barrow a lot from ANH, the story was still good. I loved Rey, and Finn's arc. The Starkiller Base weapon was an interesting step up from the Death Stars. I was pretty surprised how much of the movie was focused on the search for Luke, I had expected that to just be a subplot while the main focus was on Starkiller Base and Kylo.
This one had some of my favorite action scenes in the entire trilogy. I loved the Ben vs Finn/Ben vs Rey duel. I loved Rey struggling at first and then connecting to the Force and turning things around. She should really be able to kick ass once she's been trained.
I hadn't heard about the Falcon's first appearance, so that was a big surprise for me. I knew as soon Rey said the ship was garbage, it would the the Millenium Falcon, but it was still a fun moment.
I was disappointed we didn't get more with the new Republic.
Hopefully having Luke around in the next movie means we'll learn more about what happened with Ben and Snoke.
I still think Rey is a Skywalker. Right now I'm thinking that after what happened with Ben that Luke decided he was to much of a danger to be around her. The only thing I wonder about is why he didn't just give her to Han and Leia to raise. Did he possibly also blame them for what happened with Ben? After they were so mysterious with her family, I'm convinced she has to be somebody important.
Having seen TFA twice, that's been my experience with the film.
It's hard to get an Uber that far out from the Core Worlds. And oh boy, the ride fare from the Outer Rim Territories is enough to turn a fella to the dark side of his bank account.
Having had more time to think about it, I've grown to appreciate Rey and Finn's relationship even more. Whether or not they decide to make it a romance in Episodes VIII or IX, I think it's one of the things the movie does best. Here are two people who learn really quickly to rely on each other to survive. They come from different backgrounds but they're similar in certain ways, don't have a family but together they're swept up into this tide, and even when Finn reveals to her that he's a stormtrooper and not Resistance, Rey isn't like "OMG you betrayed me, I hate you! Liar!" She's just like "Don't go, we still have to do this stuff. We started it together, let's finish." And she's genuinely hurt when he does leave.
Like Princess Leia, she doesn't really need saving but Finn is still devoted to getting her back, and they work together to defeat Ren. And of course that nice scene at the end before she leaves with Chewie. It's a well-drawn relationship for a two hour movie with so much else going on. Compared to what the Prequels served up with Anakin and Padme, I was very satisfied how this played out and it has me looking forward to Episode VIII.
Like Princess Leia, she doesn't really need saving but Finn is still devoted to getting her back, and they work together to defeat Ren. And of course that nice scene at the end before she leaves with Chewie. It's a well-drawn relationship for a two hour movie with so much else going on. Compared to what the Prequels served up with Anakin and Padme, I was very satisfied how this played out and it has me looking forward to Episode VIII.
I laughed.
....except, Neil, the shot of BB-8 there was accomplished with a giant Sphero prop with a CGI BB-8 head added to it in post. It really was rolling across the sand under its own power. (Other times granted it was a rod puppet being pushed around like a wheelbarrow, but the point remains.)
One of the things I really like about message boards, and this one in particular, is the intelligent discussion that helps clear up gaps, which makes the stories I watch or read more enjoyable. Several gaps in TFA have been very cleanly explained in this thread, so I am enjoying the movie more as time goes on and I think about it.
On that note, I've never understood the denigration of the PT. By any measure, they are among the most popular films of all time. The Phantom Menace sold more tickets than all but 16 other films in cinema history. The 16 above it include all three of the OT, of course, but some true classics and two films from as far back as the 1930s. The list of films that also sold an extraordinary number of tickets includes a lot of unquestionably beloved films that were less popular than TPM.
Measured by average ticket sales per movie, a standalone PT would be the most popular film series of all time by a significant distance (only the original Spider-Man series comes even vaguely close). I wouldn't argue they were as good as the OT, particularly ANH and TESB, but they were still outstanding movies.
On that note, I've never understood the denigration of the PT. By any measure, they are among the most popular films of all time. The Phantom Menace sold more tickets than all but 16 other films in cinema history. The 16 above it include all three of the OT, of course, but some true classics and two films from as far back as the 1930s. The list of films that also sold an extraordinary number of tickets includes a lot of unquestionably beloved films that were less popular than TPM.
Measured by average ticket sales per movie, a standalone PT would be the most popular film series of all time by a significant distance (only the original Spider-Man series comes even vaguely close). I wouldn't argue they were as good as the OT, particularly ANH and TESB, but they were still outstanding movies.
I've always believed that there was an amazing trilogy of movies dying to get out of the prequels. Tighter scripts, better editing and a director who could actually coax a performance out of an actor could have worked wonders for the PT. There were a lot of good ideas, they were just poorly executed.
On my Star Wars rewatch last year, only Revenge of the Sith held up well in terms of the Prequels. Yeah it's wooden and stilted and silly in places, but it has Shakespearean tragedy qualities to it. Attack of the Clones had some okay worldbuilding but was otherwise poor. TPM...well....yeah.
This new movie is a solid entry into the franchise, but I'd like to see a director's cut. I'd be interested in knowing what wound up on the cutting room floor. There was a better movie in this too that never came out.
This new movie is a solid entry into the franchise, but I'd like to see a director's cut. I'd be interested in knowing what wound up on the cutting room floor. There was a better movie in this too that never came out.
Ditto. This struck me especially when I was rewatching all six movies leading up to TFA.
Honestly, you don't even need to watch Episodes I or II. Episode III works just fine as the only prequel/set-up to Episodes IV, V and VI. The "machete order" of the films IV, V, I̶,̶ ̶I̶I̶, III and VI is something you should give a go.
Also, I think Episodes III, IV and V make a better trilogy together, than IV-VI. ROTJ is just long and boring, and the characters we want/paid to see (Luke and Vader) are only a small fraction of the goings on in the film. Sure both their arcs are completed, but that conflict is too divorced from the two battles that actually deal with toppling of the Empire. Seeing the Empire rise in III, reign and suffer a defeat in IV, and comeback with a vengeance in V, is much better entertainment, IMO.
Also, I think Episodes III, IV and V make a better trilogy together, than IV-VI. ROTJ is just long and boring, and the characters we want/paid to see (Luke and Vader) are only a small fraction of the goings on in the film. Sure both their arcs are completed, but that conflict is too divorced from the two battles that actually deal with toppling of the Empire. Seeing the Empire rise in III, reign and suffer a defeat in IV, and comeback with a vengeance in V, is much better entertainment, IMO.
It seems that Luke, Han & Leia didn't really destroy the Empire, though, judging by The First Order being around and wielding a big weapon. It looks like a variation on what happened in the EU books (and the comic book Star Wars Rebellion) happened here, and that the New Republic couldn't come together enough to make things work, so the New Order rose and things went back to what they were in the OT.
For you and a lot of others, yes-for myself and just as many others on the other side of things, no. Not everybody is as dismissive of the prequels as you are, and those people made the prequels make a ton of money over the years, as they were entertained. As well, what was written about in this essay stands true for a lot of people, I'll daresay.
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