Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)

[Shaka Zulu]

Imagine, a Star Wars movie where we're more fascinated by the characters than the fancy SFX.

There was nothing wrong with the prequel trilogy except that most fans are spoiled brats who don't know what the frack they wanted from a Star Wars movie after a long time of no movies being made.

To me, I always saw the prequel trilogy as being sat in a different era (1930's-1950's) and being based on Douglas Sirk movies (and Art Deco designs from the same period), while the original trilogy was based on movies (and designs) from the 1970's and 80's, and reflected the ethos of the period (not believing in the Force, cynicism, dowdiness in things, etc.) The way that Anikin, Padme, and the rest act is different from the way that Luke, Han, Leia, and the droids act, which people didn't get.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Imagine, a Star Wars movie where we're more fascinated by the characters than the fancy SFX.

There was nothing wrong with the prequel trilogy except that most fans are spoiled brats who don't know what the frack they wanted from a Star Wars movie after a long time of no movies being made.

To me, I always saw the prequel trilogy as being sat in a different era (1930's-1950's) and being based on Douglas Sirk movies (and Art Deco designs from the same period), while the original trilogy was based on movies (and designs) from the 1970's and 80's, and reflected the ethos of the period (not believing in the Force, cynicism, dowdiness in things, etc.) The way that Anikin, Padme, and the rest act is different from the way that Luke, Han, Leia, and the droids act, which people didn't get.

I think at the time of the prequels fans really wanted to see the OT characters. True it would have been nice to see them again especially since 17 years ago they were much younger and could have had larger roles in the movies. Lucas wanted to try something new because he obviously felt he had done everything he wanted with the OT characters. I give him credit for doing what he wanted. The prequels stories may not always have been engaging but the effects were top notch for the time and Lucas again raised the bar for other film makers making films at that time and anyone making films after that. The fans got the OT characters back now and imo they are the reason the films are getting so much positive reactions. Once they kill off all the originals and all we have left are the new characters I wonder if the franchise is going to be as successful. I would say probably not and go even further to say that people will be tired of Star Wars yet again after Disney over mines it and it will go into hiatus for several years.

 

[KennyB]

gotta say Chewie's shrug when asked if Han was a war hero is the funniest thing in all 7 movies

Chewie had SEVERAL of the top moments for me. The one you mentioned.....The one where the pirates said Han had screwed them twice before, and Chewie seemed to be like, "Yup--you did" and the scene with the doctor stating how big and brave he is..........Loved them all.

 

[Gepard]

But I understand the gist of the argument. They were trying to make a movie that appeals to many rather than doing what Lucas did, which was whatever the fuck he wanted. I admire that, even if I think he made a lot of mistakes.

To the extent that I had reservations when Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney, it was along these lines. And now that we have TFA, it does feel like it's missing a certain Lucasian not-giving-a-fuck. He could go way too far with that – as he did with the Special Editions and most of the prequels – but TFA swung way too far the opposite direction.

The old argument that Lucas was at his best when he had someone to rein him in applies in reverse now, I guess. We need someone to inject some risk into the new Star Wars. The best version would be something between the prequels and TFA, as neither hit the mark alone.

 

[EmoBorg]

I just saw the movie yesterday. The only thing that i cannot understand is how Rey was able to defeat Ren. I am trying to reason it out on how she defeated Ren who had some training from Skywalker and perhaps some training from the First Order leader Snoke.

1) She barely knew anything about the Force untill Han Solo told her about it.

2) She had that moment in the vault where the force spoke to her. That lead her to the lightsaber of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. She had visions of her past as well.

3)

a) She was "force" tortured by Ren and that may have awoken her latent force abilities in her.

b) She also Jedi mind tricked 007.


4) She felt the force when she was dueling Ren. That enabled her to defeat the Ren who was shot by Chewbacca earlier on and Ren was clearly nursing an injury.


I think maybe Rey could be another choosen one and her backstory need to be explored in order for us to understand her.

 

[Gepard]

I thought it was fairly clear in the Force Vision she had at Maz's castle that she was present at the burning of Luke's Jedi Academy. Which would imply she was trained alongside Kylo Ren. The question then is not why she's so skilled with the Force but why she doesn't remember any of her past.

 

[EmoBorg]

I thought it was fairly clear in the Force Vision she had at Maz's castle that she was present at the burning of Luke's Jedi Academy. Which would imply she was trained alongside Kylo Ren. The question then is not why she's so skilled with the Force but why she doesn't remember any of her past.

I could only remember her being a child in the visions. I am sure that there were other things in it that i may have missed.

 

[Mr Light]

<<I thought it was fairly clear in the Force Vision she had at Maz's castle that she was present at the burning of Luke's Jedi Academy. Which would imply she was trained alongside Kylo Ren. The question then is not why she's so skilled with the Force but why she doesn't remember any of her past. >>

Rey is Revan! Actually, she is literally a Jedi Exile

 

[Relayer1]

If it wasn't, it was a dire decision which robs everyone of a proper 'last hurah' for the main cast and reduces the movie from 'pretty good' to 'you're effing kidding ?'

Uh, no. "Everyone" emphatically didn't need a "proper last hurrah" for the main cast, whatever that means -- we need good stories. Their final choice for TFA was far better than a contrived reunion with Leia IMO; confronting a guy as unstable as Kylo Ren and trying to convert him should not come without fatal consequence. (And really if all you're getting from Solo's last moments are "blowing the character in an attempt to build up a lame villain" then I guess you're not seeing the same movie most people are. I completely agree with Abrams' take on that scene, it's heart-wrenching.)

I think most fans, if they got the chouce would have chosen to get at least one movie with Han, Leia and Luke all together, interacting like old times - IN a good story. Kill off any of them, hell, kill all of them, but give us the reunion adventure first - we've been waiting thirty years !

There's sizeable number of viewers that thought Adam Driver was poor and/or Ren was an unimpressive villain. I certainly think he's the weak link acting-wise in the movie.

Maybe a better actor would have made the character more believable and the death seem less of a wasted opportunity.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I just saw the movie yesterday. The only thing that i cannot understand is how Rey was able to defeat Ren. I am trying to reason it out on how she defeated Ren who had some training from Skywalker and perhaps some training from the First Order leader Snoke.

Ren was severely injured by Chewie's insane blaster.

Ren was emotionally unstable after killing his own father.

Ren wasn't fully trained.


Rey's was a combination of skill (she did know how to fight and hold her own), pure luck, Ren being a mess in that situation and the force helping her.

Made sense to me!

 

[Mr Light]

I went into the movie not expecting to like Kylo Ren or Adam Driver, but they totally won me over. I hated him on Girls, what little I saw of it. The helmet voice was awesome and creepy, and he looked great without the helmet too. He had a real intensity and manic desperation.

I totally bought that Kylo is a brainwashed child soldier forced into these things and unable to escape the organization he's in now. He was a bad ass but also incompetent in a plausible way and sympathetic.

I agree that Finn holding his own against him in a duel is ridiculous, even with Kylo's injuries and emotional conflict. One Force Push and he's done. I'll have to watch the movie again, but was he toying with Finn or legitimately trying to kill him?

I don't mind Rey beating him in a fight. He's been bleeding out for hours at that point, he clearly isn't an expert, and she's innately strong with the Force. Jedi talk about how "the Force was with me", and clearly it was with Rey there, giving her power beyond what she'd normally be capable of. Plus, I'm totally convinced she's Luke's kid

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I think at the time of the prequels fans really wanted to see the OT characters. True it would have been nice to see them again especially since 17 years ago they were much younger and could have had larger roles in the movies. Lucas wanted to try something new because he obviously felt he had done everything he wanted with the OT characters. I give him credit for doing what he wanted. The prequels stories may not always have been engaging but the effects were top notch for the time and Lucas again raised the bar for other film makers making films at that time and anyone making films after that. The fans got the OT characters back now and imo they are the reason the films are getting so much positive reactions. Once they kill off all the originals and all we have left are the new characters I wonder if the franchise is going to be as successful. I would say probably not and go even further to say that people will be tired of Star Wars yet again after Disney over mines it and it will go into hiatus for several years.

You and I are in agreement, sir. Merry Christmas to you and the rest of the Adams clan.

I don't mind Rey beating him in a fight. He's been bleeding out for hours at that point, he clearly isn't an expert, and she's innately strong with the Force. Jedi talk about how "the Force was with me", and clearly it was with Rey there, giving her power beyond what she'd normally be capable of. Plus, I'm totally convinced she's Luke's kid

I too am coming around to this view.

 

[DarKush]

Imagine, a Star Wars movie where we're more fascinated by the characters than the fancy SFX.

There was nothing wrong with the prequel trilogy except that most fans are spoiled brats who don't know what the frack they wanted from a Star Wars movie after a long time of no movies being made.

To me, I always saw the prequel trilogy as being sat in a different era (1930's-1950's) and being based on Douglas Sirk movies (and Art Deco designs from the same period), while the original trilogy was based on movies (and designs) from the 1970's and 80's, and reflected the ethos of the period (not believing in the Force, cynicism, dowdiness in things, etc.) The way that Anikin, Padme, and the rest act is different from the way that Luke, Han, Leia, and the droids act, which people didn't get.

I disagree with what you're saying about the fans. There was a lot of things wrong with the prequel trilogy, however it's not the travesty many fans make it out to be. Hopefully now that we have new Star Wars films, non-Lucas films, it might make some fans reappraise the prequels.

I think there's issues with creating likeable, engaging characters that the prequel suffered from. Also centering so much on an awkward, forced romance, even though I bought it enough or rolled with it. I didn't care much about the practical effects v. CGI critiques, though sometimes the CGI is a bit much in the prequels. And stuff like having more Jar Jar Binks and less Darth Maul. Adding unnecessary things like midi-chlorians. The ideas in the prequels were mostly good or at least decent but the execution for a good portion of it was lacking.

 

[DarKush]

Imagine, a Star Wars movie where we're more fascinated by the characters than the fancy SFX.

There was nothing wrong with the prequel trilogy except that most fans are spoiled brats who don't know what the frack they wanted from a Star Wars movie after a long time of no movies being made.

To me, I always saw the prequel trilogy as being sat in a different era (1930's-1950's) and being based on Douglas Sirk movies (and Art Deco designs from the same period), while the original trilogy was based on movies (and designs) from the 1970's and 80's, and reflected the ethos of the period (not believing in the Force, cynicism, dowdiness in things, etc.) The way that Anikin, Padme, and the rest act is different from the way that Luke, Han, Leia, and the droids act, which people didn't get.

I think at the time of the prequels fans really wanted to see the OT characters. True it would have been nice to see them again especially since 17 years ago they were much younger and could have had larger roles in the movies. Lucas wanted to try something new because he obviously felt he had done everything he wanted with the OT characters. I give him credit for doing what he wanted. The prequels stories may not always have been engaging but the effects were top notch for the time and Lucas again raised the bar for other film makers making films at that time and anyone making films after that. The fans got the OT characters back now and imo they are the reason the films are getting so much positive reactions. Once they kill off all the originals and all we have left are the new characters I wonder if the franchise is going to be as successful. I would say probably not and go even further to say that people will be tired of Star Wars yet again after Disney over mines it and it will go into hiatus for several years.

Yes it will be a test for the new franchise going forward once all the torches have been passed. I think though that TFA did a pretty good job introducing these characters. But at the same time I don't know if Millennials or the generations after will care about Star Wars like Baby Boomers and Generation Xers do. Yeah, they might like these characters but I don't know if they will permeate the pop culture consciousness on the level of the original characters.

It brings to mind The Next Generation. I mean the Next Generation was popular in its day and there are people who know Picard for example. But the Next Generation has never eclipsed TOS in public, mass consciousness. I wonder if it will be the same deal for the TFA people?

Sure Star Wars as a juggernaut will remain popular for quite some time, but could it be a situation where the characters are more interchangeable and its the universe or overall experience or some lingering nostalgia that brings people back again and again. I mean the OT had decades really to cement in fans minds. Whereas the TFA cast will be competing with Star Wars anthology films. Plus the cinema landscape is much different than it was during the OT's day so there will be other competing movie franchises.

 

[DWF]

I don't mind Rey beating him in a fight. He's been bleeding out for hours at that point, he clearly isn't an expert, and she's innately strong with the Force. Jedi talk about how "the Force was with me", and clearly it was with Rey there, giving her power beyond what she'd normally be capable of. Plus, I'm totally convinced she's Luke's kid

Hours? I doubt if Ren was bleedinng at all, teh blaster more than likely healed the wound. Ren had knocked out Rey then took out Finn. He was bearing down on Rey when she finally reached deep down and used the Force agaisnt him.

 

[Trekkin]

I don't mind Rey beating him in a fight. He's been bleeding out for hours at that point, he clearly isn't an expert, and she's innately strong with the Force. Jedi talk about how "the Force was with me", and clearly it was with Rey there, giving her power beyond what she'd normally be capable of. Plus, I'm totally convinced she's Luke's kid

Hours? I doubt if Ren was bleedinng at all, teh blaster more than likely healed the wound. Ren had knocked out Rey then took out Finn. He was bearing down on Rey when she finally reached deep down and used the Force agaisnt him.

We saw him bleeding into the snow, he touches at the blood when he initially sits up after getting shot, and we also got a nice close up of the gut wound (which he proceeded to start punching.) Chewies crossbow wasn't your average blaster in this movie. Based on what we saw it doing to Stormtroopers, the bolts almost seemed to act as explosives.

Besides - cauterised or no, a hole in your organs is still going to give you trouble. Just ask Han and every other person stabbed by a lightsaber. Even without blood and the edges of the wound being somewhat sealed, his insides would be in serious danger of becoming his outsides.

 

[BigJake]

Kill off any of them, hell, kill all of them, but give us the reunion adventure first - we've been waiting thirty years !

Well, I don't know that anyone can speak for "most fans," but I sure as hell didn't want a "reunion adventure" and have not been waiting for one. The original characters had their adventure and got to destroy the Empire, their appearing in anything else at all is cake. I want new characters and new heroes, if TFA had been a fanfilm whose main heroes were retirees I would certainly have been disappointed. Given the reactions so far it certainly doesn't seem to me like "most fans" were disappointed with what we did get, so I'm guessing I'm not alone.

 

[Shawnster]

How believable is it that Ren survived the destruction of the planet?

 

[Captaindemotion]

Saw this for the second time today. I enjoyed it a lot more. The flaws are still there but somehow they appeared less important. I was a lot more caught up in the fun of it. Possibly because I brought my kids, who haven't seen a Star Wars film on the big screen before (in fact, one saw ANH years ago on DVD and the other hasn't seen any of the others) and they both loved it.

 

[Ithekro]

It may be interesting if the flaws get less important the more time TFA is seen, where as they seeming became more obvious on repeat viewing of TPM and the like.

We'll see what the reaction become once the movie is out on disc for people to be able to freeze frame anything.