Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

[exodus]

I still believe Lucas should have noticed that the script itself was lacking.

A part from that added scene, there was absolutely nothing in that movie that gave us even the slightest hint that Anakin and Obi-Wan were anything other than two guys who couldn't stand each other.

And they were supposed to be best friends.

Believe it or not, my best friend and I have nearly the exact type of friendship Anakin & Obi do. Both of us have very dominate personalities and both of us are very competitive with each other. It's as much a friendship as it is a rivalry. Anakin & Obi-Wan are best friend due to this. Student is always trying to out match teacher and vise versa. By doing so, it helps bring out the best in both and they rely on each other to keep each other at the top of their game. This is also what is keeping them both alert during war. If they weren't best friends, Anakin wouldn't have been so hurt by seeing Obi emerge from Padme ship in ROTS.


Besides, Jedi are very stuffy(Besides Quinlan Vos).
I kinda expected friendship between Jedi to be almost Vulcan like.
Also look at Luminaria & Bariss' friendship.
You see bond of respect between them but there is also a cold distance as well.

 

[DarthPipes]

I understand what you're saying but I think it was important to show Anakin and Obi-Wan as friends. It makes the eventual falling out between them that much more painful.

BTW, Temis, the Clone Wars commentary on the official Star Wars website for the last part of the Citadel was very good. Filoni discusses why Tarkin wasn't the one to shoot Sobek and why Ahsoka killed him instead. It's a good insight I though.

 

[exodus]

I understand what you're saying but I think it was important to show Anakin and Obi-Wan as friends. It makes the eventual falling out between them that much more painful.

Fair enough.
Do you think adding more playful verbal sparing would have brought that point home without having to show actually affection?

Just curious on what you would have done to show that aspect of it.

 

[DarthPipes]

I would have had more friendly interaction with them in AOTC. They just seem to be sniping at each other constantly. There's little sense of a strong friendship. I think that was important in AOTC because there was virtually nothing between them in TPM.

Also, the inconsistency. Obi-Wan tells the Council that Anakin's abilities have made him arrogant and he has doubts about giving him the assignment to protect Padme. The Council, after rejecting Anakin initially in TPM disagrees and Mace Windu says he has exceptional skill and might be the Chosen One. Then in ROTS, it's Obi-Wan who is defending Anakin and saying he's the Chosen One while the Council all of a sudden doesn't trust Anakin. There's no consistency at all.

In a deleted AOTC, Obi-Wan expresses more doubt about Anakin getting the assignment and pretty much says he doesn't think Anakin can do the job. Hell, the nature of the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship changes. In the original trilogy, we know they were good friends. In AOTC, the relationship resembles more of a father/son relationship. Three years later, it's brother/brother relationship. There's just no consistency.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think the word is warmth. There was no warmth between Anakin and Obi-wan in Attack of the Clones.

 

[Mr Light]

In the original trilogy, we know they were good friends. In AOTC, the relationship resembles more of a father/son relationship. Three years later, it's brother/brother relationship. There's just no consistency.

They meet in TPM and Anakin is a little boy. Obi-Wan raises him. So yes, he is a father figure. But after three years of fighting together in a war, he has matured beyond that relationship and now they're brothers. What's the problem?

I think the word is warmth. There was no warmth between Anakin and Obi-wan in Attack of the Clones.

I don't completely disagree with this but keep in mind that Anakin is a teenager going through hormones in a culture that forbids it and Obi-Wan is his disapproving father. Of course they're going to be bickering at that point.

 

[DWF]

Han and Luke bickered all the time so I don't see the problem with Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship.

 

[DarthPipes]

They bickered but there was more of a relationship and personality with Luke and Han than there was with Anakin and Obi-Wan. You could see they were friends who cared about each other.

 

[DWF]

They bickered but there was more of a relationship and personality with Luke and Han than there was with Anakin and Obi-Wan. You could see they were friends who cared about each other.

I can't say there was more or less of a relationship between Han and Luke than there was between Anakin and Obi-Wan, but I do think Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship was more complex. Han never asked Luke to do something he didn't want to do and Obi-Wan did ask Anakin in the name of the Jedi council to spy on Palpatine for them. Seeing the relationship between Anakin an Obi-Wan makes their final meeting in ANH all more bittersweet.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Han never asked Luke to do something he didn't want to do

Wrong:

HAN
That's right, yeah! I got some old
debts I've got to pay off with this
stuff. Even if I didn't, you don't
think I'd be fool enough to stick
around here, do you? Why don't you
come with us? You're pretty good in
a fight. I could use you.

LUKE
(getting angry)
Come on! Why don't you take a look
around? You know what's about to
happen, what they're up against.
They could use a good pilot like
you. You're turning your back on
them.

 

[Whofan]

I always saw Han as being sort of protective-sort of a big brother- of Luke in the sequels. Even his criticism of Luke in ROTJ ("Luke's crazy-he can't even take care of himself, much less rescue anybody!") shows that attitude.

 

[DarthPipes]

Anakin and Obi-Wan definitely had more complexity, there's no doubt about that. But Han and Luke actually looked liked they liked each other...something that wasn't really seen between Anakin and Obi-Wan until the final film. That wasn't helped by the little screentime they had with each other in TPM and the inconsistent characterization in AOTC.

 

[DWF]

Han never asked Luke to do something he didn't want to do

Wrong:

HAN
That's right, yeah! I got some old
debts I've got to pay off with this
stuff. Even if I didn't, you don't
think I'd be fool enough to stick
around here, do you? Why don't you
come with us? You're pretty good in
a fight. I could use you.

LUKE
(getting angry)
Come on! Why don't you take a look
around? You know what's about to
happen, what they're up against.
They could use a good pilot like
you. You're turning your back on
them.

Did you really believe that Han thought Luke would agree to go with him?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Did you really believe that Han thought Luke would agree to go with him?

Good point. No, I didn't. This is because Harrison Ford is a naturally great actor, and he, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher all had good chemistry on screen. This also supports the idea that, at least in 1977, George Lucas was a great director. For Star Wars (1977), besides writing and directing credits, IMDb lists George Lucas as executive producer, editor, and music producer, all uncredited.

 

[DWF]

Did you really believe that Han thought Luke would agree to go with him?

Good point. No, I didn't. This is because Harrison Ford is a naturally great actor, and he, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher all had good chemistry on screen. This also supports the idea that, at least in 1977, George Lucas was a great director. For Star Wars (1977), besides writing and directing credits, IMDb lists George Lucas as executive producer, editor, and music producer, all uncredited.

Lucas only had two directions, faster and more intense. Harrison Ford wanted out of the series after the second movie and Carrie Fisher was on drugs during the filming of the second movie. I can't say that about the prequel actors.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Harrison Ford wanted out of the series after the second movie and Carrie Fisher was on drugs during the filming of the second movie. I can't say that about the prequel actors.

I was referring to Star Wars (1977), which was the sole context of my previous post. I know almost nothing about the personal lives of the actors in any movie, but I'm sure they're all perfect angels, except those who come clean or make the news. What does any of what you said have to do with anything on screen in 1977 or any year?

 

[Mr Light]

I thought Carrie Fisher was all coked up for ROTJ, not ESB?

 

[DWF]

I thought Carrie Fisher was all coked up for ROTJ, not ESB?

Guess again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...me-I-did-cocaine-set-Empire-Strikes-Back.html

 

[DarthPipes]

Harrison Ford was always pissy with the SW films. If you read The Making of the Empire Strikes Back book, he seems just irritable by the end of his shooting. ESB wasn't an easy shoot and dealing with Carrie Fisher probably wasn't easy.

Han Solo and Indiana Jones are two of my favorite characters although I find it strange that Ford considers Indy a more complex character. Han Solo has a character arc and changes from ANH to ROTJ. Indiana Jones is the same exact character in Crystal Skull that he was in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

[Whofan]

I think the whole freezing Han in carbon thing was mainly to give Harrison an 'out' in case he didn't come back for ROTJ. In JEDI, he also seems to not be giving it his all either...he seemed toned down. Granted, the same thing kind of happens to Indy in LAST CRUSADE and KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL. The Indy in Raiders and Temple of Doom seems to have a bit more of an edge to him.


I still wonder how the SW films would've turned out had Lucas/Kurtz went with the original outline for the saga.