Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

[Greylock Crescent]

As a case-in-point, there are the Genndy Tartakovsky animated Clone Wars episodes. I thoroughly enjoyed them when they were released, and think they do a very good job of adding to the Star Wars mythos. But if The Clone Wars cgi series renders the animated shorts meaningless in terms of continuity the stories still hold their value for their take on the characters and the universe. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape either way.

 

[Whofan]

Yeah, that's why I now see Clone Wars as really two continuities (neither really film canon), that both kind of lead into ROTS but in different ways. One is the books and comics published mainly around 2003-2005, the other is the cartoons. They mainly differ in their portrayal of Anakin, and the chronology of his knighthood, scar etc. There's also other cosmetic issues such as the Jedi wearing armor, when the Clones got the new armor etc.

I generally liked the earlier comics and novels for their somewhat grittier takes on the war, and the fact they didn't all boil down to Jedi/Clones vs. Droids. Perhaps because they were going mainly for a fan audience instead of a general audience like the cartoons.

Doctor Who has sort of a similar approach, the original tie-in novels were mainly made for the fans and could get away with a lot more. However when the new series debuted the novels were toned down a great deal.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I never quite got the adoration and devotion to the EU. Some of it was entertaining, but I'm always a little take aback by how some folk take the EU as gospel.

I don't know the first thing about it (well, other than its an incoherent mess), which makes me feel very liberated!

Here's how I'd nail down the canon of the Force:

- It has a will and an intelligence, but so far beyond human comprehension that those terms only vaguely apply. It doesn't communicate directly with anyone and it certainly doesn't take sides.

- It strives for balance (since everything in nature strives for balance) between the Dark and Light sides (why would it have any interest in human notions of morality? that should be so far beneath it, it would be like us worrying about the habits of ameoba).

- Star Wars is therefore all about silly little humanoids who find they can make use of a small fragment of the Force's overall power, and are arrogant enough to imagine that the Force gives a shit about their petty squabbles. Once in a while, one of the characters gets enough of a clue that they realize how stupid all the struggling and squabbling is, but in general, they just go right on with their eternal, futile fighting.

 

[DarthPipes]

Yeah, that's why I now see Clone Wars as really two continuities (neither really film canon), that both kind of lead into ROTS but in different ways. One is the books and comics published mainly around 2003-2005, the other is the cartoons. They mainly differ in their portrayal of Anakin, and the chronology of his knighthood, scar etc. There's also other cosmetic issues such as the Jedi wearing armor, when the Clones got the new armor etc.

I generally liked the earlier comics and novels for their somewhat grittier takes on the war, and the fact they didn't all boil down to Jedi/Clones vs. Droids. Perhaps because they were going mainly for a fan audience instead of a general audience like the cartoons.

Doctor Who has sort of a similar approach, the original tie-in novels were mainly made for the fans and could get away with a lot more. However when the new series debuted the novels were toned down a great deal.

I was a fan of the original Clone Wars campaign. They got some great stories out of there. The Battle of Jabiim, Dark Rendezvous, etc.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Dave Filoni has stated in a couple of interviews (including one in the summer time) that they've not totally ignored the Genndy Tartakovsky micro-series and consider it a companion piece to the CGI series. In fact if they did ignore it totally Anakin would not have had his scar yet, Grevious would probably not been shown on the cgi series until much later, Ventress would probably not be featured so prominently. They've borrowed elements from the EU as well and incorporated them into the cgi series.

I was a fan of the Dark Horse Clone Wars comic series...read all the trades when the library got them in and thought they were great. I'm also a big fan of the micro-series. I'm interested to see what the last episode of "The Clone Wars" will be like if it will adapt the micro-series finale (which lead straight into the Battle of Courscant and the opening scenes of Episode III) or if they choose to rewrite it and or do something else. I don't see why all aspects of Star Wars "canon" can't live in "harmony" together or is that being too naive a fan?

 

[Mr Light]

We already have two contradictory portrayals of the Battle of Coruscant; Clone Wars Micro Season Three and the Labyrinth of Evil novel. They're the same general events but the action occurs differently. Maybe the Clone Wars CGI version will be a hybrid of the two

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Ah yes! I had forgotten about Labyrinth of Evil. Says a lot about that book.

 

[DarthPipes]

Labyrinth of Evil was fun. It has an off-beat structure without a real end or central battle. But it's like a roller coaster that does a great job setting up ROTS. Even better, the book focuses solely on the movie characters. Only one original character gets a POV chapter and he's only a plot device.

It also contains the original portrayel of Grievous, who is more of a tougher badass. Late in ROTS's post-production, Lucas decided to change Grievous into more of a cowardly bad guy who runs when the going gets tough.

 

[Mr Light]

Labyrinth of Evil was a great book. Set up the movie really well.

 

[fett51]

I never quite got the adoration and devotion to the EU. Some of it was entertaining, but I'm always a little take aback by how some folk take the EU as gospel.

For me, it's not the entire EU, there are just certain aspects of it that I'm attached to. For example, if the Dark Rendezvous depiction of Dooku is jettisoned by TCW in favor of a monodimensional megalomaniac, I'll be cranky not just because I liked that book, but because I like that depiction of the character more and since it's been thrown out of canon, I'm never going to see more of it.

- It strives for balance (since everything in nature strives for balance) between the Dark and Light sides (why would it have any interest in human notions of morality? that should be so far beneath it, it would be like us worrying about the habits of ameoba).

But then why does it let us amoebas use it? If it wants a natural balance, why not just cut us all off and prevent us from throwing it out of whack all the time?

...actually now that I think about it, if it was trying to kill all the force users, it actually did a pretty good job

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I never quite got the adoration and devotion to the EU. Some of it was entertaining, but I'm always a little take aback by how some folk take the EU as gospel.

For me, it's not the entire EU, there are just certain aspects of it that I'm attached to. For example, if the Dark Rendezvous depiction of Dooku is jettisoned by TCW in favor of a monodimensional megalomaniac, I'll be cranky not just because I liked that book, but because I like that depiction of the character more and since it's been thrown out of canon, I'm never going to see more of it.

Yeah, but you still got to see a depiction you liked, right? You can still hang on to that depiction whenever you think of Dooku in the films. To put it another way, Dooku has so little screen time in the films that I've filled in the blanks and made him a character who genuinely has the right ideas about the Republic, but merely goes about it the wrong way -- and gets duped in the process.

In my mind, he's a complex guy who falls from grace, so-to-speak, but with the best of intentions. The Dooku from TCW, on the other hand, does everything but twirl his mustache. So I just skip over those characterizations and latch on to what makes the most sense in my mind -- and what hasn't been directly contradicted by the films. If they suddenly portrayed Dooku as a cross-dresser with a hippo fetish, it still wouldn't change how I think about the character.

 

[Hound of UIster]

For me, it's not the entire EU, there are just certain aspects of it that I'm attached to. For example, if the Dark Rendezvous depiction of Dooku is jettisoned by TCW in favor of a monodimensional megalomaniac

But that characterization was already ignored by the rest of the EU. Remember in the novelization of ROTS that even mentions the events of DR, they instead portray him as a power hungry psychopath with no understanding of compassion or friendship.

 

[fett51]

Yeah, but you still got to see a depiction you liked, right? You can still hang on to that depiction whenever you think of Dooku in the films.

Sure, that's pretty much what I've been doing with TCW so far, as they haven't delved into his motivations. He can keep being a ruthless manipulator, but if it gets Lucas-canoned that that's all he is any future TCW writers, or writers who wish to work in this period will be stuck with that, and I think that's a great shame.

But that characterization was already ignored by the rest of the EU. Remember in the novelization of ROTS that even mentions the events of DR, they instead portray him as a power hungry psychopath with no understanding of compassion or friendship.

Yeah, I remember. But unless Lucas chucks it himself, future writers can go back to it if they like.

 

[Hound of UIster]

The novel was edited by Lucas himself.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

- It strives for balance (since everything in nature strives for balance) between the Dark and Light sides (why would it have any interest in human notions of morality? that should be so far beneath it, it would be like us worrying about the habits of ameoba).

But then why does it let us amoebas use it? If it wants a natural balance, why not just cut us all off and prevent us from throwing it out of whack all the time?

...actually now that I think about it, if it was trying to kill all the force users, it actually did a pretty good job

The Force just doesn't notice the amoebas, because amoebas are incapable of throwing it out of whack to any real extent. They're nothing more than a tiny annoyance. When it notices something vaguely amiss, it just shrugs and the amoebas go flying. Star Wars is the story of flying amoebas with grandiose notions of self-importance.

 

[Christopher]

The novel was edited by Lucas himself.

My understanding is that Lucas pays little attention to the Expanded Universe. He's also not trained as a prose editor; heck, he needed Alan Dean Foster to ghostwrite the ANH novelization for him. (His training is as a film editor, which is an entirely different skill set.) So I find this claim extremely difficult to believe.

 

[DarthPipes]

I actually think he was involved in the Labyrinth of Evil book. I recall reading this in SW Insider and elsewhere. I believe certain elements like what we learn about the whole Sifo-Dyas business and the BS game plan Sidious gave Dooku for fighting Anakin came from him.

Speaking of the SW Insider, I got the newest issue. Good stuff but it completely spoils the upcoming Brother of Maul storyline. Bah!

The buzz about that storyline has been very good.

 

[Hound of UIster]

My understanding is that Lucas pays little attention to the Expanded Universe.

I don't know, but for the same author he wrote the foreword for another SW novel.

There is also stuff like the addition of Sith Lords into the expanded universe years before TPM that can only be explained by input from George Lucas.

 

[JD]

The Star Wars novels are edited by Shelly Shapiro at Del Rey, and overseen by Sue Rostoni at Lucas Licensing. As for Lucas, I'm pretty sure he's not involved himself, except on special occasions. And when he is involved, I think it's in more of an unofficial capacity. I think the only books he's really been involved in have been the movie novelizations, and maybe the ones tying directly into them.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know, but for the same author he wrote the foreword for another SW novel.

So? It's an immense jump from that to saying that he edited the book.

There is also stuff like the addition of Sith Lords into the expanded universe years before TPM that can only be explained by input from George Lucas.

The term "Lord of the Sith" was introduced as a description for Darth Vader in Alan Dean Foster's novelization of ANH back in 1977. I believe it was also used in SW comic strips in the late '70s. Anyone who read either of those would've been familiar with the concept of Sith Lords, without needing Lucas to edit their books.