Star Wars: Question on ROTS?

[ReadyAndWilling]

^
Jeez. That sounds lame.




Still, it's better than what Lucas had planned in the first draft with a ten year old Han Solo.

wow i never heard that one before. wasn't boba fett gonna show up as well?

 

[Whofan]

Han Solo and an armored Boba Fett do show up in some of the concept art. Han at least was going to be in the film helping out Chewbacca and Yoda on Kashyyk, or something like that.


One deleted scene that made it into the last script but was cut from the film itself would've had Chewbacca actually involved in attacking some clonetroopers so Yoda could escape. It also would've had Yoda doing the whole 'weird swamp creature' thing as a disguise to fool the clones.

 

[Set Harth]

wow i never heard that one before.

You heard something very similar:

i heard a droideka rolled in to fight anakin, but because the doors were jammed it couldn't help the Viceroy as in ep1?

Where did you hear that, if not the script? Is there another source?

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

Han Solo and an armored Boba Fett do show up in some of the concept art. Han at least was going to be in the film helping out Chewbacca and Yoda on Kashyyk, or something like that.


One deleted scene that made it into the last script but was cut from the film itself would've had Chewbacca actually involved in attacking some clonetroopers so Yoda could escape. It also would've had Yoda doing the whole 'weird swamp creature' thing as a disguise to fool the clones.

that swamp thing sounds great. why didn't we see even one scene with the wookies fighting the clones?

 

[Admiral_Young]

We didn't see any scenes of the Wookies fighting the clones after Order 66 was issued because there wasn't time in the film to depict that. Lucas kind of had more important matters to attend to after that. Perhaps a few second planetary battle scene might have been fine but obviously Lucas didn't think that important enough to show given what came next in the film. Your questions are peculiar indeed.

 

[Whofan]

Still would have been cool for Chewbacca to do something apart from standing around and carrying Yoda...plus it would've recalled ROTJ a bit. Oh well, the Dark Lord novel kind of makes up for that a bit.

 

[Set Harth]

We didn't see any scenes of the Wookies fighting the clones after Order 66 was issued because there wasn't time in the film to depict that.

There was time for one scene, such as the one in the script where more clones run in to attack Yoda, only to be gunned down by Chewbacca and Tarfful.

 

[PsychoPere]

I wonder what the citizens of the Empire would think if they knew their Emperor was a Sith Lord?

Many EU sources treat the average citizen as not having much of an idea on the difference between Jedi and Sith, that they're both simply followers of the same religion with somewhat different outlooks. In the Fate of the Jedi series, even the Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance (the successor state to the New Republic) espouses this view on several occasions.

Heroes on Both Sides and Pursuit of Peace in S3 has more of substance on the Seppy story than the PT had in all three movies. I used to think those guys were just interchangeable boring stock villains who were only good for target practice.

What I found amusing about those episodes is that the Confederacy rails against corporate influence in the Galactic Senate - yet the Confederate Senate seems to have the exact same influence, just different corporations.

^ It really is an awesome read. Listening to Lucas's constant revisionism is hilarious and facepalm inducing at times. I'm sure some of the stuff he has stated was intact in earlier drafts, I don't know though why he can't admit that he has made it up as he has gone along. There's no shame in that.

It's pretty fun to read some of those early drafts, too, especially for the film that would eventually become A New Hope.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I wonder what the citizens of the Empire would think if they knew their Emperor was a Sith Lord?

Many EU sources treat the average citizen as not having much of an idea on the difference between Jedi and Sith, that they're both simply followers of the same religion with somewhat different outlooks.

That seems to be a perfectly reasonable outlook. If Jedi and Sith can hop sides the way they do, why see them as opposing elements rather than on the same continuum?

Heroes on Both Sides and Pursuit of Peace in S3 has more of substance on the Seppy story than the PT had in all three movies. I used to think those guys were just interchangeable boring stock villains who were only good for target practice.

What I found amusing about those episodes is that the Confederacy rails against corporate influence in the Galactic Senate - yet the Confederate Senate seems to have the exact same influence, just different corporations.

My take on the Seppys is that they are desperate to get away from the corruption problems of the Republic, having given up on reforming it, and are making allies where they can. Which of course means corruption follows them anyway.

My question is: does this mean that the concentration of power itself is the source of corruption, and the only solution is to forget about any form of central government at all? Why have a central government anyway? Why can't all the planets just govern themselves and forge alliances as the occasion demands?

 

[Set Harth]

In the Fate of the Jedi series, even the Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance (the successor state to the New Republic) espouses this view on several occasions.

That doesn't mean everyone believes her. Consider the outrageous lies which are regularly uttered by her real-world parallels. This is, after all, a former Imperial villain who once plotted to destroy Coruscant and slaughter its citizens, not to mention the atrocities committed by her forces during the JAT and her attack on Yavin 4 ( which is why the plot of her as Chief of State is hard to swallow in the first place ).

 

[Silvercrest]

My question is: does this mean that the concentration of power itself is the source of corruption

That's the way it works in the real world!

Why have a central government anyway? Why can't all the planets just govern themselves and forge alliances as the occasion demands?

Onscreen, they'd come across like the squabbling Non-Aligned Worlds in B5. And about as effective.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Temis your take on the Separatists is exactly what is explained in the film. They seceded from the Republic citing their concerns of it's corruption and the Senate's inability to govern their vast systems effectively any more. Palpatine immediately recognized this as a prime opportunity and in his guise as Darth Sidious ordered Count Dooku (a disillusioned former Jedi Master after the death of his former student Qui-Jon) to take leadership of the new political sect and manipulated events to start a war. This war ripped apart the Republic and created the circumstances for his coup d'ete and his goal of creating the Empire. Sometimes I think you over think things too much.

 

[PsychoPere]

In the Fate of the Jedi series, even the Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance (the successor state to the New Republic) espouses this view on several occasions.

That doesn't mean everyone believes her. Consider the outrageous lies which are regularly uttered by her real-world parallels. This is, after all, a former Imperial villain who once plotted to destroy Coruscant and slaughter its citizens, not to mention the atrocities committed by her forces during the JAT and her attack on Yavin 4 ( which is why the plot of her as Chief of State is hard to swallow in the first place ).

Oh, certainly. In fact, I don't believe she's actually stated that viewpoint in public (at least where I'm at in the series), only in private. I mentioned it merely as an example of someone rising to a position of galactic authority who foolishly believed there is little difference between Jedi and Sith. One of the things that I've liked about FOTJ has been the inclusion of characters in the news media, a situation that I don't recall in previous EU works, since that presents opportunities to get opinions from "average" citizens on the street, some of which share that view, some of which don't.

I also agree that Daala as Chief of State is rather difficult to accept as plausible, even with her "savior" role at the end of LOTF.

 

[DWF]

@Temis your take on the Separatists is exactly what is explained in the film. They seceded from the Republic citing their concerns of it's corruption and the Senate's inability to govern their vast systems effectively any more. Palpatine immediately recognized this as a prime opportunity and in his guise as Darth Sidious ordered Count Dooku (a disillusioned former Jedi Master after the death of his former student Qui-Jon) to take leadership of the new political sect and manipulated events to start a war. This war ripped apart the Republic and created the circumstances for his coup d'ete and his goal of creating the Empire. Sometimes I think you over think things too much.

Seeing as how Palpatine campaigned on the idea of removing corruption from the Republic I'd say he planted the idea with the leaders of what would become the Seperatists of overcoming the corruption in the Republic. He created the entire conflict then got rid of the Seperatists after they were no longer needed.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ My point exactly. Almost everything we have seen in the saga is some kind of manipulation on the part of Palpatine.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

i'm thinking about buying some audiobooks.

which ones focus on droids? i'd love to listen to one.

thanks

 

[HaventGotALife]

@Temis your take on the Separatists is exactly what is explained in the film. They seceded from the Republic citing their concerns of it's corruption and the Senate's inability to govern their vast systems effectively any more. Palpatine immediately recognized this as a prime opportunity and in his guise as Darth Sidious ordered Count Dooku (a disillusioned former Jedi Master after the death of his former student Qui-Jon) to take leadership of the new political sect and manipulated events to start a war. This war ripped apart the Republic and created the circumstances for his coup d'ete and his goal of creating the Empire. Sometimes I think you over think things too much.

It's a little more complicated then that. You have Palpatine seizing power by using the trade federation, part of the seperatists. This actually causes them to seperate. Also, 10 years before the Clone Wars, an Army was created by Siphodias. It's never fully explained why Siphodias created the Army. Without that, the Jedi would've been crushed and Dooku would've been the figurehead of the new Republic.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yes it's been mentioned before in the thread that Palpatine basically has manipulated events and organizations, essentially the entire galaxy. I was making a generalized point regarding an earlier take in the thread that Temis had made about the Separatists which basically breaks down to: it's in the film.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

@Temis your take on the Separatists is exactly what is explained in the film. They seceded from the Republic citing their concerns of it's corruption and the Senate's inability to govern their vast systems effectively any more. Palpatine immediately recognized this as a prime opportunity and in his guise as Darth Sidious ordered Count Dooku (a disillusioned former Jedi Master after the death of his former student Qui-Jon) to take leadership of the new political sect and manipulated events to start a war. This war ripped apart the Republic and created the circumstances for his coup d'ete and his goal of creating the Empire. Sometimes I think you over think things too much.

It's a little more complicated then that. You have Palpatine seizing power by using the trade federation, part of the seperatists. This actually causes them to seperate. Also, 10 years before the Clone Wars, an Army was created by Siphodias. It's never fully explained why Siphodias created the Army. Without that, the Jedi would've been crushed and Dooku would've been the figurehead of the new Republic.

is it ever explained how sideous gained the necessary capital/loan to carry out his plans?

 

[HaventGotALife]

@Temis your take on the Separatists is exactly what is explained in the film. They seceded from the Republic citing their concerns of it's corruption and the Senate's inability to govern their vast systems effectively any more. Palpatine immediately recognized this as a prime opportunity and in his guise as Darth Sidious ordered Count Dooku (a disillusioned former Jedi Master after the death of his former student Qui-Jon) to take leadership of the new political sect and manipulated events to start a war. This war ripped apart the Republic and created the circumstances for his coup d'ete and his goal of creating the Empire. Sometimes I think you over think things too much.

It's a little more complicated then that. You have Palpatine seizing power by using the trade federation, part of the seperatists. This actually causes them to seperate. Also, 10 years before the Clone Wars, an Army was created by Siphodias. It's never fully explained why Siphodias created the Army. Without that, the Jedi would've been crushed and Dooku would've been the figurehead of the new Republic.

is it ever explained how sideous gained the necessary capital/loan to carry out his plans?

Not that I know of.