Star Trek's Troubling 50th Anniversary

[doubleohfive]

Who the hell is Doug Jung? The only person I can find is this guy, and his list of credits hardly screams like a suitable talent to write a movie, let alone one under this much scrutiny.

Clearly he's a writer who has made his bones producing and writing for a couple of cable television shows like Banshee and Big Love but also has a few features under his belt.

What, exactly, constitutes "suitable talent" in your opinion?

One feature 12 years ago.

My mistake.

And only a handful of episodes from TV shows with a 5 year and 4 year gap between work. It appears he co-created Dark Blue, which, fair play to the guy

Don't let IMDb fool you. Television writing is a weird thing. Writers are on staff all season, helping with the breakdown and writing of every episode of the season. They work in confefence (usually) to develop stories for the writers to actually write. It's why it's kind of dumb to blame Brannon Braga for bad episodes of Star Trek, because while he did write something like "Threshold" it was also a story that was broken, developed and outlined by the staff as a group before Braga was sent off to write it. So even though this guy may have only seven episodes to his credit, he was very likely on staff for those shows for whole seasosn. If we are going to mark the value of his ability to write based on what he's done previously, I think that's as important a distinction to make as any.

- I just don't think I buy this guy working with Simon Pegg - someone whom has had no prior working experience with (going on his IMDb page, again, I'm not even sure this is the right guy).

Well, --and I don't mean any offense here -- you've demonstrated you don't really "get" how writing in TV and film works. Jung penned a single episode of Big Love, two for Banshee, and six for Dark Blue, the series he also co-created (with Danny Cannon) and EP'd. I'd say that's plenty of experience and that he'd be just as suitably talented as anyone in the business.

Jung wasn't an outside writer pitching a single episode or there by some fluke; he was a a legtimately hired member of the staff who understands writing for the screen, and well enough -- as you yourself mentioned already -- to have sold a pilot to series, too.

As someone else pointed out, it's very likely Lin will the be the driving, narrative force behind this film and its absolutely possible Jung is being brought in to assist and write in support of that.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The World's End's ending was straight out of TOS. I eagerly await fans pre-condemning anything he writes for Trek.

 

[Dac]

Clearly he's a writer who has made his bones producing and writing for a couple of cable television shows like Banshee and Big Love but also has a few features under his belt.

What, exactly, constitutes "suitable talent" in your opinion?

One feature 12 years ago.

My mistake.

And only a handful of episodes from TV shows with a 5 year and 4 year gap between work. It appears he co-created Dark Blue, which, fair play to the guy

Don't let IMDb fool you. Television writing is a weird thing. Writers are on staff all season, helping with the breakdown and writing of every episode of the season. They work in confefence (usually) to develop stories for the writers to actually write. It's why it's kind of dumb to blame Brannon Braga for bad episodes of Star Trek, because while he did write something like "Threshold" it was also a story that was broken, developed and outlined by the staff as a group before Braga was sent off to write it. So even though this guy may have only seven episodes to his credit, he was very likely on staff for those shows for whole seasosn. If we are going to mark the value of his ability to write based on what he's done previously, I think that's as important a distinction to make as any.

- I just don't think I buy this guy working with Simon Pegg - someone whom has had no prior working experience with (going on his IMDb page, again, I'm not even sure this is the right guy).

Well, --and I don't mean any offense here -- you've demonstrated you don't really "get" how writing in TV and film works. Jung penned a single episode of Big Love, two for Banshee, and six for Dark Blue, the series he also co-created (with Danny Cannon) and EP'd. I'd say that's plenty of experience and that he'd be just as suitably talented as anyone in the business.

Jung wasn't an outside writer pitching a single episode or there by some fluke; he was a a legtimately hired member of the staff who understands writing for the screen, and well enough -- as you yourself mentioned already -- to have sold a pilot to series, too.

As someone else pointed out, it's very likely Lin will the be the driving, narrative force behind this film and its absolutely possible Jung is being brought in to assist and write in support of that.

I know writing for film is very different to writing for TV, I'm just not sure I'm buying that guy from IMDb (Are we POSITIVE thats the guy?) is holed up in a room somewhere with Simon Pegg bouncing ideas off each other with a laptop on hand.

As for JD Payne and Patrick McKay, I was never a fan of them - and look where their script ended up. This guy has A produced movie in his belt at least which is more than they did, I just don't see the path to writing Trek 3 from his IMDb page. Payne and McKay had Bad Robot as their entry point - so I could see why they got the gig. I have nothing against this guy, I just don't see the logical path towards him after Orci, nor a connection with Pegg.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility, I just want to make sure this is the guy and I'm sure not gonna take a question asked by some random spanish guy on twitter to this guys brother as confirmation.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Well, I do understand that point of view, I agree with Lance that I have yet to see a convincing argument against Nero's destruction, due to what we know the characters know. Kirk had no way of knowing where the black hole would end up, and given how powerful Nero's ship was, there is no reason not to assume it could end up elsewhere, and he starts all over again.

Like I said in the earlier post, I was more troubled by how Kirk flippantly gives the command to kill Nero, which makes me wonder if the offer to help was just a formality and nothing sincere.

Maybe Kirk could have been more remorseful at the lack of a choice, but then the same could be argued over Kruge, Chang, and other TOS villains.

Maybe. But Kirk wasn't coming off flippantly smug about killing in either case (though Sulu showed a hint of it in VI).

So, I think Trek III will show as a captain based on his own merit, and that outcome will be as close to TOS Kirk as we will get.

That's what Orci claimed when he was still directing, so hopefully that's still the case even after his script was thrown in the bin.

 

[Sindatur]

It's possible this guy along with Simon Pegg (And maybe also Orci?) are simply doing some rewrites to Orci's original script (We don't yet that Orci's script is being scrapped).

Of course, it also is possible that Pegg and Jung are starting again from scratch because Paramount (Or Justin Lin) wants nothing to do with Orci's initial script

And of course, we still haven't rec'd Trade notification that Jung and Pegg actually have the gig, and if they do, it's probable that Lin is driving the whole thing.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

It's possible this guy along with Simon Pegg (And maybe also Orci?) are simply doing some rewrites to Orci's original script (We don't yet that Orci's script is being scrapped).

Of course, it also is possible that Pegg and Jung are starting again from scratch because Paramount (Or Justin Lin) wants nothing to do with Orci's initial script

And of course, we still haven't rec'd Trade notification that Jung and Pegg actually have the gig, and if they do, it's probable that Lin is driving the whole thing.

A very measured response. I now feel ready for whatever may occur.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, I do understand that point of view, I agree with Lance that I have yet to see a convincing argument against Nero's destruction, due to what we know the characters know. Kirk had no way of knowing where the black hole would end up, and given how powerful Nero's ship was, there is no reason not to assume it could end up elsewhere, and he starts all over again.

Like I said in the earlier post, I was more troubled by how Kirk flippantly gives the command to kill Nero, which makes me wonder if the offer to help was just a formality and nothing sincere.

Maybe Kirk could have been more remorseful at the lack of a choice, but then the same could be argued over Kruge, Chang, and other TOS villains.

Maybe. But Kirk wasn't coming off flippantly smug about killing in either case (though Sulu showed a hint of it in VI).

So, I think Trek III will show as a captain based on his own merit, and that outcome will be as close to TOS Kirk as we will get.

That's what Orci claimed when he was still directing, so hopefully that's still the case even after his script was thrown in the bin.

Well, with regards to Kirk in killing villains, there was a level of satisfaction, maybe without the smugness but still a measure of satisfaction. I don't agree with Kirk's smugness, but that is true throughout the film, not just in that one instance.

I think Kirk was sincere in his offer, but I think that Nero's attitude brought out the impulsive side of Kirk. Though, given the destruction that Nero had wrought upon the Federation I suppose I cannot blame such a feeling.

In any case, I think that Kirk's arc will continuing to be fascinating on character level.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

This lost me at Interstellar. Star Trek is action and fun (particularly this incarnation). Interstellar was good (extremely dodgy ending aside), but is a completely different beast. Last time a Trek movie tried to be serious sci-fi, it came up with TMP which sucked.

Also, I loved ID. I found it anything but "insulting". It's an interesting time for Trek, and with a new creative team a lot could go wrong, but I'm optimistic. Like Abrams did, Lin could take Trek to whole new heights.

My point exactly. And even if the next movie does flop, so what? That does happen sometimes.

Also, TMP's plot isn't really 'serious' sci-fi, as it was about stopping something from destroying Earth-just like the plots of the 2009 and 2013 movies people love to bash.

The title of this thread reads like: "I'm troubled that Star Trek is still alive after 50 years! It should be dead already! It's the creepy thing that won't die!"

No, seriously: if you're troubled about having a fiftieth anniversary in which there is still ongoing production in the wake of high-draw successful films, then that tells me that you are troubled by having a fiftieth anniversary period. You must want there to be no more Star Trek, ever.

I'll see you "I'm troubled that Star Trek is still alive after 50 years! It should be dead already! It's the creepy thing that won't die!" and raise you
"Star Trek isn't my emoprogressive wet dream that I used to love with all my heart (code for "I miss the Berman/Braga/Moore/Roddenberry 24th century epoch-this one isn't progressive enough for me") and I want the previous era back"-this after having hated said Berman/Braga/Moore/Roddenberry 24th century epoch previously and always bitching about it on the 'Net like crybabies (in particular Voyager and Enterprise.) These 'fans' don't know what they want from one moment to the next, only that the franchise isn't fitting the purity that they have of Star Trek. What else is new, though?

 

[Gepard]

So Orci is out, a new director is in, and Simon Freaking Pegg is co-writing?

I just got a raging hope-boner.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It looks like filming begins April 15.

 

[SPCTRE]

So Orci is out, a new director is in, and Simon Freaking Pegg is co-writing?

I just got a raging hope-boner.

I haven't heard that term since the women's World Cup.

 

[BigJake]

I voted "Cautiously Optimistic," but that's really based on how much box Justin Lin is likely to draw in China (and thus whether Trek will continue as a franchise in some form or other), not on whether it will be a particularly good film. If you were someone who thought the previous two films were tantamount to "Fast and Furious in space," Lin's outing can be mostly counted upon to remove the qualifier "tantamount." His early output notwithstanding, he's largely made his name on making slightly-disguised John Woo parodies (or undisguised, counting his episode of "Community"), and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to divine whether he's been hired to reproduce Better Luck Tomorrow or The Fast & The Furious 6 in the Trek context.

For those reasons, I kinda think the happy-talkers are kidding themselves. I rather doubt that this is where Paramount would have wanted to be at this point, and it's pretty obviously not a good sign that Orci had the director's chair and writing credits unceremoniously yanked from underneath him after a few months, retaining a Producer credit that may or may not be ornamental (and after the yanking, I'm frankly leaning toward "ornamental"). I suspended judgement, but I can't say I didn't see it coming; I'm just (relatively) grateful that it happened before we had to watch a movie made by an indifferently-talented hack who lucked into a cultural moment where his brand of bullshit is commercially viable and otherwise has all the arrogance, but a tenth of the cleverness and ability, of the guy whose coat-tails he rode in on.

Lin's outing will probably make money, at least with the international market taken into account. But in all honesty, the chances of my going out to view on "on the big screen" are pretty minimal. I've never done that for any of his other films and I'm not likely to gamble just because he has the Star Trek brand behind him. Ultimately I'm just not enough of a Trek superfan to go out for just anything that has that brand slapped on it.

 

[Amaris]

...Ultimately I'm just not enough of a Trek superfan to go out for just anything that has that brand slapped on it.

Neither am I. Good thing, eh? The movie will do well.

 

[BigJake]

...Ultimately I'm just not enough of a Trek superfan to go out for just anything that has that brand slapped on it.

Neither am I. Good thing, eh?

Believer as I am in your unicorn fabulousness, J., you were just now trying to convince me that Alice Eve's role in STID was narratively meaningful.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Give a man a blog and he'll read for a day. Teach a man how to blog and he'll annoy for a lifetime.

Devon, I love you, I really do.

This kind of article is why I miss Starlog-it had journalists who knew what was what as far as being a journalist was concerned, and who NEVER would have come up with articles like this that were complete second guessing and that made mountains out of molehills. Of course, there are still sci-fi media mags being published out there (Starburst and Empire being the biggies) but for me, Starlog (and Dreamwatch, which is also gone) was the best.

Now we have what Devon mentioned, and I'm sorry, but if this is entertainment journalism, then I'm a wagon.

 

[JoeZhang]

There aren't a lot of EONs, Marvels and LucasFilms out there because Hollywood doesn't actually like groups like that because they can't control them. Those three examples have/had a very strong hold on the material, making them relatively independent from studios.

Sure sounds that way:

Star Wars creator George Lucas has admitted his ideas for a new trilogy of films were ignored by studio Disney after he sold all rights to the long-running space opera saga in October 2012.

The film-maker told USA Today last week that he planned to shoot the seventh movie in the long-running space opera saga - since retooled by JJ Abrams as Star Wars: The Force Awakens - and release it in May this year.

He also provided treatments for three new films. But in a new interview with Cinema Blend Lucas revealed that none of his ideas made the final screenplay for Abrams’ debut turn in the director’s chair.

“The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn’t really want to do those,” said Lucas. “So they made up their own. So it’s not the ones that I originally wrote [on screen in Star Wars: The Force Awakens].”

Notice he doesn't say 'Lucasfilms' he says Disney and I'm pretty sure of all the people on the planet, he knows the difference.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jan/21/star-wars-george-lucas-films-disney

 

[Amaris]

...Ultimately I'm just not enough of a Trek superfan to go out for just anything that has that brand slapped on it.

Neither am I. Good thing, eh?

Believer as I am in your unicorn fabulousness, J., you were just now trying to convince me that Alice Eve's role in STID was narratively meaningful.

All I said was that she was a part of the storyline. Trying to attach adjectives like "meaningful" to it are as fruitless as explaining why the color blue is the best color. It comes down to personal taste. The fact still remains, however, that she was a part of the storyline.

 

[BigJake]

Neither am I. Good thing, eh?

Believer as I am in your unicorn fabulousness, J., you were just now trying to convince me that Alice Eve's role in STID was narratively meaningful.

All I said was that she was a part of the storyline. Trying to attach adjectives like "meaningful" to it are as fruitless as explaining why the color blue is the best color. It comes down to personal taste. The fact still remains, however, that she was a part of the storyline.

Yes, ornamentally so, which is not really much.

But who am I kidding. My brother will be there opening night, which pretty much means I'll be there opening night. But he'll be buying, gorram it, so at least my conscience is clear.

 

[Amaris]

Yes, ornamentally so, which is not really much.

But who am I kidding. My brother will be there opening night, which pretty much means I'll be there opening night. But he'll be buying, gorram it, so at least my conscience is clear.

You're going to love it!

 

[BigJake]

Yes, ornamentally so, which is not really much.

But who am I kidding. My brother will be there opening night, which pretty much means I'll be there opening night. But he'll be buying, gorram it, so at least my conscience is clear.

You're going to love it!

Prior experience suggests no. But I would love to be proved wrong.