Star Trek XI Vs. Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan - simple poll

[jstimson]

What strange motivations people have for voting. Not based on actual film merits, but on how it will piss off "the other camp".

In any case, both movies are very different in scope, style, depth, and intent. As much as I enjoyed the latest movie, it was a bit popcorn when compared to TWOK. And that was the intent after all. I prefer TWOK, but I don't crap on XI.

It would be nice to see the sequel (XII) with a deeper story and where things have impact. TWOK was not just about Khan and his revenge, it was also about acknowledging the "getting old" thing and becoming comfortable with it. It was about loss and gain, the bittersweet of reuniting with a long lost son while losing your best friend. The action moved so fast in XI that some of the impact of Kirk maturing before our eyes was lost in the rush, as was the cementing of his and Spocks relationship. I would gladly have traded the snow monster scene for one with emotional impact instead. But, every movie has its faults and none of the faults in XI detract greatly from the fact that it was a great romp and very enjoyable.

So after all the blah blah blah (teacher says!), Trek II gets my vote over Trek XI, but not because I hate XI.

 

[Borgminister]

I voted for Star Trek 2009... mainly to piss off the haters in the crowd. They so enjoy pissing on others opinions

So anyone who didn't like film is automatically pissing on others' opinions?

Or shitting on them from up high.

 

[JTK1]

TWOK

 

[Larraby]

What strange motivations people have for voting. Not based on actual film merits, but on how it will piss off "the other camp".

In any case, both movies are very different in scope, style, depth, and intent. As much as I enjoyed the latest movie, it was a bit popcorn when compared to TWOK. And that was the intent after all. I prefer TWOK, but I don't crap on XI.

It would be nice to see the sequel (XII) with a deeper story and where things have impact. TWOK was not just about Khan and his revenge, it was also about acknowledging the "getting old" thing and becoming comfortable with it. It was about loss and gain, the bittersweet of reuniting with a long lost son while losing your best friend. The action moved so fast in XI that some of the impact of Kirk maturing before our eyes was lost in the rush, as was the cementing of his and Spocks relationship. I would gladly have traded the snow monster scene for one with emotional impact instead. But, every movie has its faults and none of the faults in XI detract greatly from the fact that it was a great romp and very enjoyable.

So after all the blah blah blah (teacher says!), Trek II gets my vote over Trek XI, but not because I hate XI.

We see Kirk as a rebellious thief of a kid, to a drunken smart-ass, to an obnoxious cadet on the verge of suspension from the academy to the first officer and finally to the Captain of the flagship of the Federation, all in practically a blink of an eye, not to mention the other characters.

The movie lacks any serious storytelling, emotional depth or common sense. It's purpose was to be financially successful by appealing more to the masses, and to make Trek relevant again, which it succeeded in accomplishing.

As for adding to the mythos, I think it failed miserably.

 

[Peter the Younger]

As much as I loved ST XI, I still have to put TWOK on top. That movie is just purified, distilled 180 proof Star Trek. All of the franchise's best elements are represented (and even some of the darling cheesiness.) Sure there are some who object to the military tone, but it fits the story like a glove, and gave the film a familiar, human aspect (especially for those who served.) And while every single Trek story has its plot holes, thematically TWOK is the tightest script; everything in the movie feeds into the life/death/rebirth theme: the birthday gifts, the long lost son, the villain's dead wife, the young trainees unprepared for battle, the wounded Enterprise, Spock's death and funeral, and of course the nature of the Genesis device itself.

Trek XI is like a breath of fresh air, it's like the franchise has been given its youth back after a long descent into decrepitude. Of course, the young kid is still a little rough around the edges (I'm talking about the film as a whole, not the cast or crew), but I expect great things from them.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

^ Well-said. I agree completely.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Guys, i just wanted this to be a poll. Please, no flamewar here. I don't want this thread closed before its time.

 

[Chrisisall]

They're both good. Period. No flame war.

 

[Middle Earther]

I liked TWOK the best.

 

[trevanian]

Guys, i just wanted this to be a poll. Please, no flamewar here. I don't want this thread closed before its time.

You canNOT think this title wouldn't provoke a flamewar, it is this year's version of the eternal ST vs SW, a GUARANTEED fire-pissing contest.

Only dif is that the napalm urine comes out of phasers that pop up and out of the hull or twirl around their barrels instead of just shooting like they always did in the past.

If you wanted a non flame subject, then it could have been FIREFLY vs LEXX -- and yeah, it took me a minute to remember LEXX existed, but it was worth the time to come up with a title that was of interest to virtually nobody -- or something equally inarguable (and that fewer folks given a fuck about.)

 

[Aike]

Gene Roddenberry´s choice would have been XI since the women are hotter and show more skin.

 

[RyuRoots]

Like comparing diamonds to a lump of coal. Star Trek XI, hands-down.

 

[npsf3000]

I'm glad most people are voting on what they though was best, not just to piss everyone else of

For those who think this film is more about the action than the story, i have a question?

Why isn't this good? I mean after 10 Films, whats wrong with having a nice reboot that just kicks Ass? I haven't seen too many of the actual episodes (though i have read a ton of the books, and seen all the movies), but since when is action bad? Too much action is not good, but sometimes sitting back down for eye candy can be exhilarating. IMO, at least they didn't try to rewrite history like ENT did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02LgdXVkXgM

From what i have seen of TOS, this film seems to fit in quite well and return to many of the roots. I think the mysterious "Red Matter" is one of the best story devices ever created - especially after our well known Techno-Babble.

 

[Amaris]

I felt that way, too, but I tried to look at TWOK freshly like I see Trek XI so that I could make a fair comparison. I thought "What if both of these were played side by side and looked at with new eyes?" and for me, Trek XI still wins.

Strange, if I do that, TWOK still wins by far. The character arcs, the story, the villain, the quality of the dialogue, the character's motivations, the soundtrack, the visual effects, direction, editing, emotional impact...


We should look at it in 2 years, when the hype about this totally overrated flick is over. nuTrek isn't going to age well, while TWOK is pretty much timeless.

I can understand that. Like I said, it was not an easy decision to make. I thoroughly enjoy both movies, and maybe, in a few years, Trek XI will slide down the popularity stats a bit for me, then again, maybe not.

As was said, it's not truly fair to compare them. Trek II was a rip roaring story that took already established characters and wove a great story. Trek XI had much more difficulty because they had to reintroduce these characters to a new generation, and so the first movie was more introductory than plot based. However, I still found both of them wildly fun, and more than deserving of the name Star Trek.

J.

 

[Shazam!]

They're both good. Period. No flame war.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact.

 

[LeahBoBo]

^ Shazam! You don't have to always say something, do you?

 

[Red Ranger]

TWOK. Easy choice for me. -- RR

 

[Piper]

The Wrath of Khan. Trek XI doesn't come close to having the same depth.

 

[Aike]

Back in 1982, was TWOK really considered a deep movie? It was a very popular movie at the box office and basically equivalent to a pop corn flick today.

 

[Trajet]

While I enjoyed Star Trek XI's sheer exuberance, overblown sense of scale and state-of-the-art effects, I came away less than impressed by the slightly hollow, rushed feeling story. There was no depth or real emotional resonance to the movie. As a way to relaunch the franchise as a pop culture tentpole, it was fine, and perfectly enjoyable, but it won't go down in history as one of the most richly rewarding or thought provoking of science-fiction films. It was too heavily handicapped by having to re-introduce the main characters to an unfamiliar audience, and get them all together on the Enterprise, so it didn't really have the time to spare on spinning us a ripping good yarn.

Star Trek II, on the other hand, is a far more satisfying piece of work, with a more integrated story, much better writing and more convincing interplay between the characters, which is hardly surprising as the crew had been together for years by that point. There was no need to spend the first part of the movie re-introducing the characters, so it had more of its running time left to tell the story, which led to a better thought out, less thrown together feel. Yes, it does fall down with some slightly clunky, low budget effects work, but for the time it was made, the effects were more than up to par. I find it more enjoyable and rewarding to watch than Star Trek XI as it's a more cohesive piece of filmmaking with a depth Trek XI can only dream of, and shows that you don't need an enormous budget to tell a convincing science-fiction story.

I think part of it's "tighter" appeal comes down to the very fact that it was produced on a relatively tight budget and a relatively tight timeframe, whereas Star Trek XI had a rather lengthier gestation, a much, much bigger budget, and almost a checklist of things that HAD to be in the movie in order for it to be identified and accepted as Star Trek.

They're both good films in their own right, but in very different ways.