Star Trek TOS Re-Watch

[mb22]

If you read the original post at this link...
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/new-discovery-about-a-piece-of-the-action.306303/

...I would love to see you explain the similarities away as coincidences. Or maybe you'll see what I meant.

You are most probably correct. The gangster-society idea was already present, but the details were influenced by the movie -- no contradiction.

 

[Forbin]

Well, as long as you believe in some higher power.

No. That is not a requirement.

 

[Commander Troi]

I barely remember Bread and Circuses. I don't think it was aired often in my area. It'll be interesting to see what I think when I get there.

 

[Quantum21]

I barely watch TOS anymore...2 episodes a year maybe. It remains a good memory, amorphous, fleeting and probably a little outdated now.

Perhaps I'll watch one or two after seeing this.

 

[Warped9]

I’m planning my own full series rewatch soon. It’s been awhile. I’m thinking of watching them in Stardate order for a change.

 

[johnnybear]

After Stardate order try one of the many BBC orderings too but watch out as a few episodes were omitted!
JB

 

[Ssosmcin]

Ahywho...

I fell into a production order rewatch and as of last night have gotten to Court Martial.
Anyway, here are my 2023 revised ratings for each episode I’ve rewatched thus far:

Where No Man Has Gone Before: **** - incredible pilot. Feels like a feature
The Corbomite Maneuver: ***** wow
Mudd’s Women: *** better than I remember.
The Enemy Within: *****
The Man Trap: **** better than reputation
The Naked Time: *****
Charlie X: *** ½ Take out the rec room scene and it’s perfect.
Balance of Terror: *****
What Are Little Girls Made Of?: *** ½ one of two episodes where Spock is left in the background.
Dagger of the Mind: *** Okay episode, needs more Spock but still a pivotal episode for him

John DF Black is replaced by Coon at this point:

Miri: *** ½ I like this one better now. Great horror. Feels like a John Black episode
The Conscience of the King: *** Still feels like a Black produced show
The Galileo Seven: **** Great episode for Spock as he starts to soften
Court Martial: ** ½ This one didn’t age well. Goofy courtroom procedure with some great dialog but sabotaged by some sloppiness. I think it’s the last time we see Uhura at the navigation console. Every Star Trek show has at least one courtroom episode and I never like them.

Moving on into my Production order rewatch:

The Menagerie (Part 1) **** - great framing set up for what will amount to the regulars watching a movie for the second part. Dead serious with a killer conversation between Kirk and McCoy over whether or not Spock could be the culprit. In a genius move, McCoy is on Spock's side - and is wrong. But on any other day, he'd be right. Wonderful.
The Menagerie (Part 2) *** 1/2 great pilot story is undercut by the weaknesses of having the "present day" portions add tension for commercial breaks. They don't make narrative sense and are false jeopardy. But the wrap up is extremely sweet.
Shore Leave ** Eh, not as much fun for me now than when I was a kid.
The Squire of Gothos ** Popular episode, well played, but it just...stops. Another "kid with powers taken away by the folks" ending that worked better in Charlie X.
Arena *** amazing first half weakened by a slow second. The fake "far too light" boulders and Spock's rambling commentary drag this down a bit for me.
The Alternative Factor ** I don't hate this one like most fans. It's confused and weird but it's fun and never ever dull.
Tomorrow is Yesterday ** This one just doesn't land with me. This portion of the series is my least favorite, there's just a lack of energy and excitement in these episodes. Kind of a mid-season slump as Gene Coon finds his way. This episode is a great idea but it's played far too lightly and the time travel climax makes no sense at all. Kirk takes a long time to realize that maybe he shouldn't be showing a "a late 1960's" Air Force Captain all the ins and outs of the future. But Kirk was always slow in that area (as we'll see with Khan).
The Return of the Archons *** Better! Great throwback to the 1930's horror spectacles during Festival. While the episode spends an inordinate amount of time in dungeons, this episode is pretty dark for the Coon era and the guest cast is perfect.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Kirk takes a long time to realize that maybe he shouldn't be showing a "a late 1960's" Air Force Captain all the ins and outs of the future. But Kirk was always slow in that area (as we'll see with Khan).

It's like he thinks the 23rd century in general and the Federation in particular are so great, he wants to tell everybody he can about it. Kind of a futurism evangelist.

 

[johnnybear]

I always thought that was for our benefit as Fellini either didn't understand or even tried to believe him!
JB

 

[Quantum21]

Moving on into my Production order rewatch:

The Menagerie (Part 1) **** - great framing set up for what will amount to the regulars watching a movie for the second part. Dead serious with a killer conversation between Kirk and McCoy over whether or not Spock could be the culprit. In a genius move, McCoy is on Spock's side - and is wrong. But on any other day, he'd be right. Wonderful.
The Menagerie (Part 2) *** 1/2 great pilot story is undercut by the weaknesses of having the "present day" portions add tension for commercial breaks. They don't make narrative sense and are false jeopardy. But the wrap up is extremely sweet.
Shore Leave ** Eh, not as much fun for me now than when I was a kid.
The Squire of Gothos ** Popular episode, well played, but it just...stops. Another "kid with powers taken away by the folks" ending that worked better in Charlie X.
Arena *** amazing first half weakened by a slow second. The fake "far too light" boulders and Spock's rambling commentary drag this down a bit for me.
The Alternative Factor ** I don't hate this one like most fans. It's confused and weird but it's fun and never ever dull.
Tomorrow is Yesterday ** This one just doesn't land with me. This portion of the series is my least favorite, there's just a lack of energy and excitement in these episodes. Kind of a mid-season slump as Gene Coon finds his way. This episode is a great idea but it's played far too lightly and the time travel climax makes no sense at all. Kirk takes a long time to realize that maybe he shouldn't be showing a "a late 1960's" Air Force Captain all the ins and outs of the future. But Kirk was always slow in that area (as we'll see with Khan).
The Return of the Archons *** Better! Great throwback to the 1930's horror spectacles during Festival. While the episode spends an inordinate amount of time in dungeons, this episode is pretty dark for the Coon era and the guest cast is perfect.

My biggest issue with Managerie is the story doesn't make sense.

Why is this Talosian "threat" any worse than other threats that don't warrant a death penalty?

The other thing is they SOLVED the problem. There is no longer a threat. They don't want to use humans anymore. I presume warning bouys were put up. In Discovery they were also portrayed as helpful. Problem over.

Alternative Factor:

The central story could have been epic: multi-dimensional chaos and strong personalities, but it fizzles at every turn.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Why is this Talosian "threat" any worse than other threats that don't warrant a death penalty?

An empty threat (ultimately)? A misapplied deterrent that nobody ever bothered to challenge? Spock lobbied for it to keep other Vulcans from those "disturbing" flowers?

 

[Noname Given]

My biggest issue with Managerie is the story doesn't make sense.

Why is this Talosian "threat" any worse than other threats that don't warrant a death penalty?

The other thing is they SOLVED the problem. There is no longer a threat. They don't want to use humans anymore. I presume warning bouys were put up. In Discovery they were also portrayed as helpful. Problem over.

I can only assume Starfleet Command was overly paranoid about the Talosian's warning to Pike of:

"Your race would learn our power of illusion, and destroy itself too."

 

[Ssosmcin]

My issue with Part Two was the Talosians would cut off transmission simply for the sake of giving us a a tese moment for the commercial break ("guilty......as charged"). And then we come back and the film is rolling nicely. Did they have technical difficulties?

 

[Noname Given]

My issue with Part Two was the Talosians would cut off transmission simply for the sake of giving us a a tese moment for the commercial break ("guilty......as charged"). And then we come back and the film is rolling nicely. Did they have technical difficulties?

The Talosian Mental Streaming Network was experiencing cutbacks.

 

[Warped9]

A couple of things occur to me.

“The Cage” was likely/possibly never originally intended to be seen. But series production falling behind schedule and needing to save money pushed them to be creative so they utilized the original pilot to give us some historical backstory within a somewhat hackneyed framing sequence. It worked, mostly.

The other issue at play is 1960’s episodic television wasn’t as hung up on continuity and internal consistency as viewers expect today. So here we have a race of powerful telepathic beings treated differently than other similar races our heroes encounter throughout the series.

It could even be explained as Pike’s Enterprise being the first to encounter such powerful telepathic beings so they took a harder line than they would later.

 

[johnnybear]

1960s and 70s television was mostly episodic or in other words each show was it's own story and only connected to the pilot and to no other episode in that series! Occasionally a character from a first season show would return in the second but it wasn't ever guaranteed!
I think I much prefer television from those times to be honest!
JB

 

[Ssosmcin]

I don't mind season arcs...if they're well thought out. But honestly, at my age (and attention span), I really like the security of the single episode stories (or a two-parter when the story was epic enough). I really don't have the energy or even desire to sit there and hang in for a whole year to get to the climax of one story. I also really miss watching a show and getting a "favorite episode." Serials are one episode spread out over however many weeks. The satisfaction of a season stands or falls on how this one arc works out. "In my day" if we had one shitty episode, we could shrug it off as a waste of an hour with the confidence the next one in a week will be better.

Even DS9 wouldn't be strictly serialized, it had arcs now and then but it was still about 80% episodic. Babylon 5 did it just right.

 

[Warped9]

Babylon 5 did it just right.

Yep, agreed.

I’ve been following a couple of guys on Youtube first-time reviewing TOS and calling themselves the Target Audience. They remarked recently how they’ve come to appreciate the episodic format in TOS. They appreciated getting a complete story without having to invest in watching a season’s worth of episodes to get what is going on.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

1960s and 70s television was mostly episodic or in other words each show was it's own story and only connected to the pilot and to no other episode in that series!
JB

One exception: The Beverly Hillbillies started out as a serial show, and then it went to 2- or 3-episode story arcs for a while. [It was also a cereal show sometimes, if you count the seamlessly inserted Corn Flakes commercials featuring the cast.] I've been watching it on MeTV. It's a tremendous sitcom.

Bewitched and Lost in Space both started out as serials, which they had to do because the "settled premise" was something they built up to, rather than started out with. Then LIS became a faux serial, ending with a tacked-on cliffhanger for next week's show.

 

[johnnybear]

Yes Lost in Space had the next week adventure tagged on to the episode you were watching and occasionally seamlessly so you couldn't see where this one ended and the other began!
JB