Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x10 - "A Quality of Mercy"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by Commander Richard, Jul 6, 2022.

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  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Again, it's not relevant to the story being told. It's about Pike's efforts to avoid his fate and what that means.
    From the costuming thread. Obviously, the costume designer is wearing a mask as protection against the nuclear waste while working on the uniform.
     
  2. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    Again, this detail wasn't relevant to their version of the story. Callbacks aren't random.

    In fact, there's no reason that these two had to be the same couple as in BoT. Ortega wasn't Stiles. Did you notice that only one apparent character from TOS had joined Pike's crew?
     
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    They're both on Instagram.
     
  4. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Romulan Praetor wasn't the same one as in the TOS episode. Why would it have to be Tomlinson and Martine?
     
  5. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    The Centurion serving the Romulan Commander aboard the Bird Of Prey was an entirely different character as well. So yeah the future history was changed in a number of respects due to Pike's acts taken to save himself from the fate of the accident.
     
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  6. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Enterprise looks different, Pike doesn't dislike woman on his bridge, Kyle's an Asian guy and April is black, Spock and T'Pring are a thing instead of not seeing each other since they were 7. Uhura's a linguist instead of a technician. How is this a "different Praetor" when all those are the same/don't count/whatever? All they did is ignore one single gendered reference. It's far less in the grand scheme of things.

    I genuinely do not understand where the line is between acceptable retcon and must be a different character because timeline
     
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  7. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    It's all a retcon, and it's all cool.
     
  8. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Totally agreed. It's not even much of a continuity problem. A very simple explanation could be that the Praetor seen in "A Quality of Mercy" prefers to use male pronouns even if she looks female. The Praetor might be transgender or genderqueer by Human standards. Or, maybe in Romulan culture, male pronouns are always used for the Praetor even if the actual person is a woman, as a holdover from an earlier era of institutional misogyny.

    Or, to go an entirely different track, perhaps the Tal Shiar in the Prime Timeline was aware of Kirk's reputation and detected his promotion to captain of the Enterprise, and this helped set off some sort of political domino effect that led to the replacement of the "Quality of Mercy" Praetor with the Praetor referred to in "Balance of Terror." But in the alternate timeline of "Quality," the "Terror" Praetor never took office.

    There could be plenty of explanations in-universe that don't require retcons.
     
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  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    That itself seemed contradicted by 'The Cage', there were several there.
     
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  10. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He could have meant a female yeoman. Or he was just having such a bad day after the Rigel VII mission that he was lashing out at a convenient target. He's not exactly all smiles and backslapping with Dr. Boyce in his quarters, neither.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The line is different for everyone. TMP is a different timeline for me because of the changes in characters. Other things are quite minor to me, like recasts.

    Though, Pike's comment about a woman on the bridge is probably the least difficult to explain away because Pike is depressed after the Rigel mission. His doctor tells him as much and calls him on his bullshit.

    Spock and T'PRing not seeing each other since 7 is also implied not stated outright.
     
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  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    But after a few martinis...
     
  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Every Starfleet Captain loosens up after a drink. Except Ron Tracey. He just gets angrier and more paranoid and sweatier.
     
  14. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    IDK if that's true, because I don't think Matt Decker would loosen up after a drink either. ;)
    ^^^
    (Edited to correct the name. I originally put William Decker because I mentally conflated William Windom the actor with Matt Decker the character he played.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Willard.

    Don't make V'Ger join with you. :p
     
  16. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    in fact I feel that SNW showing their continuing relationship helps a lot in avoiding Vulcan to look very backwards, with arranged marriages between total strangers.
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Only a little bit, since the ritualistic material still talks about T'Pring becoming property of the victor.
     
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  18. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    He doesn't say he dislikes women on the bridge. The actual dialogue exchange is:

    NUMBER ONE [UNA]: She's replacing your former yeoman, sir.
    PIKE: She does a good job, all right. It's just that I can't get used to having a woman on the bridge. No offence, Lieutenant. You're different, of course.​

    Which is, of course, an incredibly inappropriate, misogynistic thing to say.

    The clear implication of the line is that women have only recently started earning senior staff positions on starships -- that Una was for a long time the only woman to hold a senior staff position and that other women are only recently earning bridge positions, recently enough that Pike still finds the situation unfamiliar.

    This is, of course, completely incompatible both with the rest of ST canon and with, y'know, real life.
     
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  19. Captain Jollydark

    Captain Jollydark Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I kind of like the way Spock was so alarmed in his dream "But that's ritual combat!" Like WTF, no one does that anymore, this is crazy. (Nightmare crazy.) But it helped put Amok Time into context for me so that I could see it as a completely archaic, antiquated custom that nobody bothered to take off the books. Who's going to call for ritual combat in this day and age seemed to be the implication behind Spock's dream reaction. It's not retcon but enriching and providing context for what we know happens in the future.
     
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Romulan Praetor was in BoT?