Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x03 - "Ghosts of Illyria"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by Commander Richard, May 17, 2022.

?

Hit it!

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    20.7%
  2. 9

    22.1%
  3. 8

    31.5%
  4. 7

    15.3%
  5. 6

    6.3%
  6. 5

    3.6%
  7. 4

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  8. 3

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  9. 2

    0.5%
  10. 1 - I give it a number one, and not the good Number One.

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  1. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    It doesn't, actually.
     
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    I read that line as being three successive wars, riding the same wave of increasing intensity.

    The whole "Secret augment in Starfleet" thing is kind of retreading DS9 territory. It feels like this thread can't go much of anywhere without making it so Bashir shouldn't have had so much trouble.

    Unless they make progress in anti-augment prejudice until Space Seed sets them all back to square one.

    I wonder if this is who Scotty learned how to preserve himself in the buffer for 75 years from.
     
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  3. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I thought of Enemy Within, but I don't remember if it was an ion storm. I probably got them conflated.
     
  4. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    TOS S1 The Enemy Within's transporter issue/plot complication was caused when a Technician beamed up covered in some strange ore. Kirk beamed up right after and was 'split' into two entities.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ooohhh...fun retelling of that story. The whole team is beamed up, and you have duplicates running around everywhere!
     
  6. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And for some reason they didn’t have any shuttles at that time. :)
     
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  7. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Tuesday took a while to arrive in the TOS era...lots of time dilation. ;)
     
  8. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    With that concept you could practically rewrite it as mirror mirror lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    True, but I like the idea of duplicates of their own natures, good and evil, rather than as a totalitarian empire bent on destruction.
     
  10. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    What does slavery have to do with the telekenetic/telepathic fast-growing children in the episode?
     
  11. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    STV is head and shoulders, entire tiers, above the crap that is GEN and company.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Artificial people have artificial rights or no rights.

    Their right not to be treated as property comes from their biology.

    Human beings banded together and said "NO MORE!"

    (Aliens too.)

    But if you can mix some inert chemicals together, and the end result has no human rights but can pull a plough share for hours under two hot suns, you got yourself self a loophole where slavery is suddenly legally and ethically permissible.
     
  13. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I can see that with synths/andorids/reploids, but an intelligent, organic life form? Seems a bit of a stretch.
     
  14. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I figured it meant, that the ridged version was one of the many ways they altered themselves. Still nothing that says they couldn't have been fully human initially. (Or at least, as human as the Iotions or the Eminarians or the inhabitants of Beta III).
     
  15. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I actually DO believe they punched a hole into a close already-existing parallel. Its the only thing that explains why both universes still exist, instead of just a timeline rewrite (City, FC, etc). It explains things like Chekov's age, ALL of the aesthetics, and doesn't require the need for an "ending" story to "restore the timeline" so that Picard and Disco can happen. But I do not believe a timeline change will go backwards as well; thats just ridiculous.
     
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  16. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    Did anyone else catch the transporter sounding like the 80s movies? Or did i hear it wrong?
     
  17. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    actually changes happening backwards as well is not ridiculous but only logical: no 23rd century as we know it and all the time travel events we know of never happened.
     
  18. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    Thats why I would say that it wasn't even just time travel with 2009, but an actual alternate universe.

    Anyways, IMO, the new 23rd and all of that was the timeline rewrite during First Contact that created Enterprise, the NX, the TCW and the Disco-23rd. Its consistent with itself, and the Kelvinverse is consistant with an already existing alternate, which Spock misunderstands.
     
  19. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How so?
    unlikely.

    And First Contact changing the timeline is an old fan theory, I’ve always liked it but it’s not canon.
     
  20. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    not officially, but I don't see how anything works otherwise - the next show being Enterprise, which contradicted a lot of small details and lore established in TOS and TNG, and already had a built in time-war, right after a movie that rewrote the timeline from an earlier point, multiple times during the course of the movie. Enterprise had the Borg drone, and between that and Daniel's quarters, so much tech was introduced early, and the NX went from having blown up to having founded the Federation...... it all just screams, to me, of multiple butterflies coursing through the timeline. The next show is Discovery, which has a MASSIVELY redesigned 23rd century, because of all this new tech introduced to the newly rewritten 22nd century, leading to the current Discoverse, with all sorts of small details from early TOS and early TNG being contradicted on a regular basis. Its the one theory that explains ALL of the things people can complain about. Its logically consistent with itself. It allows you to watch all of the shows in production order, instead of jumping around from the 2000s to 2017 to 1966 to 1987 to 2020 to watch the show in chronological order. You can watch them in the order they were made, and the pieces all make sense, because the timeline was rewritten during FC, and then the narrative jumps back to Enterprise and starts over. It makes the franchise whole, and the only good TNG movie is the lynchpin that causes the rewrite and holds the whole thing together. I can go with it. And if it can retcon Generations out because the timeline was rewritten afterward?? DO IT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.


    As for my other point, Spock isn't perfect, and didn't expect red matter to open a dimensional and/or time gate, and if both were involved, he may only recognize the one element. Instead of having to handwave "changes went backwards!" to explain all sorts of differences, and to keep it consistent with the way alt Us and timeline rewrites have been in about 95% of the franchise, it just makes much more logical sense, to me, to declare it a pre-existing alternate universe. IMO, YMMV.... if it was just time travel, then the Kelvinverse would be literally existing in the fabric of what used to be the Prime universe; it wouldn't have spawned another one. There isn't a world where the Nazi's still won WWII, and one where the whale probe destroyed Earth, and one where the Klingons destroyed the D, and one where the Borg took over during the 21st century. It defeats the point of all those episodes and movies and gets rid of any drama or weight the stories may have held, let alone the fates of the people left in the "bad place", and the hollow victory of our heroes who "saved the day" only to escape to a new place, leaving their old one behind. The Prime Universe wouldn't exist for all of these shows to be happening in. Now, if they make one more Kelvin Trek that closes the loop and resets to a version of "Prime" by stopping Nero before the Kelvin is destroyed, then I repeal my entire rant.