Star Trek: Renegades

[Danlav05]

Ummm... you do know Gotham is based on the Smallville template, right? Not to knock SV which I loved, but it's firmly in light and fluffy territory.

Light and fluffy?! The Batman universe is DARK, Gordon is the main character. I know what the premise is so it's not 'Batman: Year Two'.

Yeah it's practically the same as Smallville (which I love) but it's going to really utilize the many elements of the Batman Universe in aw way that cannot be done in a singular film.

 

[PattyW]

Why do fan film groups need tax free status when there is no income/profit?

So they can get more donations. If you are registered, people can deduct the donation, and they can also choose to donate monthly if they are a "government employee". I think you can also choose to donate money to any 501(c)3 when listing on eBay.

One of the issues is that if an organization doesn't obtain 501(c)3 status within a certain time period, there is a fine for every month after that. (I believe it's either 24 or 27 months).

Barbreader: This particular item would probably hit a bunch of fanfilm groups, including "Phase II", hard...even if they could legally count back to when they changed from an Inc. to an LLC. Another sticky for Phase II is "Cawley Entertainment Company" being attached - which is most decidedly a "for profit" company (being James' Elvis business dating back 27 years)...so instead of "Phase II" the 501(c)3 would have to be obtained by Retro Film Studios LLC. Which, of course, would limit their ability to do anything but fanfilms in the future.

The process isn't as easy as one would hope - it involves a whole lot of legal documents ("articles of association", "narrative of activities" in addition to the "mission statement" and "Vision statement" etc), as well as a chunk of cash. (beginning at $400 & $800) I'm currently trying to get it for a charity I'm involved in and it's not pleasant.

Farragut Films state they are a 501(c)3.

 

[doubleohfive]

There WILL be Star Trek on TV again. CBS has said so. They have been taking pitches from every major group in Hollywood.

Orci / Kurtzman, Bryan Singer, Bad Robot, etc.....

How do you know this? Is it from your own dealings with Paramount, or do you have actual sources you can cite?

I myself have loved the JJ Abrams' films for what they are, but I also think Star Trek is infinitely more suited toward a television format rather than as individual feature films. It'd be nice to see Trek back on the small screen, but until there's some kind of verifiable source with some kind of notability, it's all just a pipe dream at this point.

Barbreader: This particular item would probably hit a bunch of fanfilm groups, including "Phase II", hard...even if they could legally count back to when they changed from an Inc. to an LLC. Another sticky for Phase II is "Cawley Entertainment Company" being attached - which is most decidedly a "for profit" company (being James' Elvis business dating back 27 years)...so instead of "Phase II" the 501(c)3 would have to be obtained by Retro Film Studios LLC. Which, of course, would limit their ability to do anything but fanfilms in the future.

Is Retro Films even planning on making any (for lack of a better term) orginal content? Everything they've done so far, everything discussed or shown has been exclusively tie-in/fan film/property of other people. Star Trek, Buck Rogers, The Wild Wild West...

 

[Barbreader]

They had the rights to Buck Rogers. That was to be for profit.

 

[doubleohfive]

Ah. That certainly muddies the legal waters then. Regardless, it doesn't negate the fact that Retro Films hasn't created any original content. Having the rights or not, they're still using someone else's intellectual property. That's not me attacking them, by the way -- I'm a fan of their work. It's a definition of fact.

It's interesting to note though that the two big power-houses of the fan film community -- Phase II and Hidden Frontier -- who churn out episode after episode, and then attempt to create something new, only to have it shutter after a short lifespan. I never got to see Frontier Guard, and apart from the oddly edited preview for Buck Rogers, nothing else came of it beyond some promotional images. It makes me sincerely hope that all the work Dennis and his crew have been doing on Polaris will pay off and that we will get to see the film, because everything I've seen, read and heard about leads me to suspect it will be excellent.

 

[Barbreader]

Yes, it would be best for any group seeking tax exempt status to obtain a new incorporation so that it would not involve looking back decades. And yes, it would cost a few hundred dollars. With Phase II spending $50,000-$70,000 a year in AFTER TAX dollars, which could represent, if tax deductible, as much as $10,000 to $12,000 in tax reductions per year (I'm only looking at Federal taxes, as NYS taxes would not apply to every donor... for Phase II, in fact, I suspect Federal taxes would not apply to every donor. I'm sure some of the money comes from overseas... or at least just over the border) So, in 5 years we are talking about as much as $50,000 to $60,000 in tax reductions... almost a whole year of donations. ... not doing this is penny wise and pound foolish, (pardon the switch to British currency). I suspect Phase II would find that money could be raised from its higher-income donors just for the rearrangements. And if James then donated the set and other goods controlled by the current Phase II to the NEW entity, the donation would be tax deductible to the donor or donor entities. OR, he could donate the use of the set and charge the entity actual costs of upkeep and rent (or expenses like real estate taxes if he owned the location). The value of the set is not something I could guess, but I'm sure that there are people who can evaluate that. Phase II might even have a high-income lawyer Trek fan who would do the work as a donation. The only way to know is to ask.

In the end, this is not for me to decide, but only for persons currently involved with and working on Phase II.

My sister felt as you do about my father's WWII veterans' pension. I did the paperwork, and in the end about two days work yielded for him on the order of $30,000 in pension payments. (It was our work, not his. He had had dementia for over a decade and had spent down all his savings to the assisted living facility. He was broke and his assisted living facility was going to eject him for inability to pay, as he was in a state where it was legal to collect over a million dollars over a ten year period and then eject a person who had become broke). With the extra pension money, we added money of our own each month and he was able to stay where he was accustomed to living until he died.

Likewise, people may buy opera tickets without a tax deduction, but they are more apt to DONATE to the opera because it's a not-for-profit tax deductible cultural institution.

CBS does not seem to have objected to Farragut's 501(c)(3) status, although I'd be happier of somebody from that group could post here and comment on that matter.

There was a time I did this kind of work but it's been decades and I am no longer familiar with the details involved.

 

[PattyW]

When I was involved, RFS wasn't pursuing the 501(c)3 because they had plans for original content. (one of the plans depended on a series bible from me which, I admit, I never provided) (and they owned the building, so they did pay taxes to three government bodies, as well as water and all utilities). There was some discussion about re-organizing when they got the second studio, but only James could comment on that at this point.

 

[curtiskoeppel]

There WILL be Star Trek on TV again. CBS has said so. They have been taking pitches from every major group in Hollywood.

Orci / Kurtzman, Bryan Singer, Bad Robot, etc.....

how do you know this, the only thing I ever saw about a pitch was from JJ when they were doing the 2nd movie and he said cbs was not interested

 

[Tom]

There WILL be Star Trek on TV again. CBS has said so. They have been taking pitches from every major group in Hollywood.

Orci / Kurtzman, Bryan Singer, Bad Robot, etc.....

how do you know this, the only thing I ever saw about a pitch was from JJ when they were doing the 2nd movie and he said cbs was not interested

Alec is right, there have been various quotes over the past few years from CBS execs saying Star trek will return to TV someday. Also there have been pitches over the years as well. You can just Google those news items.

The question is not IF Star Trek will return to TV, its when, and also, in what form and channel it will be on.

 

[Maurice]

Since Doubleohfive mentioned it: Polaris will get finished. Except for a few little nice-to-have pickups it's in the can and it's just post work ongoing.

 

[doubleohfive]

Since Doubleohfive mentioned it: Polaris will get finished. Except for a few little nice-to-have pickups it's in the can and it's just post work ongoing.

Of that I have no doubt. I apologize if it came across as though I was questioning the production and it's release - that was not my intent.

 

[PattyW]

I just get annoyed at all the people who think somehow CBS is going to see one of these projects and pick it up.

First, none of these projects are union crews. That alone means it could never be real Star Trek. When I talked to one of the top people in CBS, he told me point blank, that there are 50 years of contracts and union agreements that tie up how Star Trek gets made, and even the simple idea of listing fan films on Startrek.com would literally take the CEOs of CBS and Paramount sitting in a room together and hashing it out.

Respectfully, that's a little simplistic. From my dealings with CBS and Sony...

True, no studio could just "pick up", "purchase", or "hire" a fanfilm the way it is.

They COULD purchase outright the previously made episodes. (This circumvents the whole "union" problem.)

Then they COULD purchase the sets and other "hard" assets, as well as the name of the show.

Then they COULD "hire" anyone to work on that show that is a member of an "industry union". For most shows that would almost exclusively be the actors, though I know a couple of the DPs and post production people are also union members. (And Directors...though the fact is that directors are usually hired per episode, not for the series.)

Second, my co-producer and I know more top people at CBS than any other fan film, and I can tell you that they have said it will never happen.

This is true, but because there is never a consensus among The Powers That Be. At any given moment you can find a handful of "the top people at CBS" who enthusiastically want to purchase/use "Phase II" and vow it will be done. Problem is they always run into at least one guy who doesn't agree. So the "wait till that guy leaves" wait begins. And when that guy is gone? One of the other supporters has been replaced with a "not going to happen" guy.

Otherwise....we'd all be watching "World Enough and Time" as one of the DVD extras on JJ Trek 09....

 

[OpenMaw]

I could see it happening if the production were treated as little more than a glorified proof-of-concept or fully realized pitch.

In that regard it might raise the chances of it getting picked up versus anyone else who walks in with just a script. Visuals can convince much more heartily than just words on the page.

A picture is worth a thousand words and all that.

 

[Noname Given]

There WILL be Star Trek on TV again. CBS has said so. They have been taking pitches from every major group in Hollywood.

Orci / Kurtzman, Bryan Singer, Bad Robot, etc.....

I'm hoping they'll work on something for the 50th, that would be nice - maybe a CBS TV Movie they can take to series a few months after. An animated show would suffice.

I wanted a serious Batman show for years and although it's a prequel GOTHAM enters production next month!

The 50th anniversary (in 2016) will most likely be centered around the release of the third JJ Abrams Star Trek film.

If it is indeed the final feature film (it was a 3 film deal that Paramount signed on for); and they don't continue the film series; CBS may announce plans to return Star Trek to TV sometime after the film's opening; or not.

But CBS is making a good chunk of change remastering (and in the case of 'Enterprise, re-releasing) the various series on Blu-Ray (in true HD format) - so I don't think CBS will risk oversaturating the market with 'Star Trek' until the current film series has run its course.

(Yes, CBS and Paramount are separate entities but are both under the same overall corporate umbrella, so I don't think CBS will do something that could adversely affect the profitability of the current Paramount feature film series.)

 

[Loken]

...At any given moment you can find a handful of "the top people at CBS" who enthusiastically want to purchase/use "Phase II" and vow it will be done. Problem is they always run into at least one guy who doesn't agree.

That is so much crap. I have never met ONE person at CBS who has even suggested such nonsense. And again, I know and have dealt with more people at CBS than anyone.

As always, claiming CBS would ever do anything with any fan film is so much nonsense.

 

[PattyW]

Alec, you are ignorant in this area. (not a put down, a statement of fact. You simply don't know.) New Voyages/Phase II existed for many, many years before you showed up. And "WE" had been given the "yes, we want to work with you!" then "Crap, it's not going to work right now!" so many times our heads became mounted on permanent spinners and our moods were practically bi-polar about it. Ask James, Gary, Charles....or any other producer or upper management that was around for time the trips to LA were yearly. (and why do you think James Cawley and his "Phase II collection" is featured on the extras on a DVD right now? Or were you not aware of that? It was a "booby prize" when one of these discussions fell through.)

The whole "CBS" assumes that "CBS" is a constant. It's definitely not. The players are always changing, as is the environment. (as anyone who was around FF when the "new head of CBS legal" came aboard. That department suddenly went through every fanfilm and site in existence...sending letters and directives that were brand new despite earlier agreements. Randy Landers, among others, can attest to this.)

 

[curtiskoeppel]

I thought renegades was getting ready to push out a new trailer, what happened to that?

 

[Tom]

Working on it, but we are trying to concentrate on the various edits at this point. Also, we would like the next trailer to have some vfx in it but are still being worked on.

 

[Loken]

Out of respect to Tom and Star Trek: Renegades, I will not be replying to any nonsense from Patty.

As to Renegades, I am looking forward to seeing the next trailer.

 

[Tom]

We have put out 2 trailers with just unprocessed footage and some minor stock VFX, it does not make sense to put out another trailer in the same manor. We really need to concentrate on post production (editing, film enhancements, vfx, etc..) rather than just constantly releasing raw trailers. We will be putting other trailers out, but just can't put any time tables on it. It's one of those quality over quantity sort of things.