Star Trek: Renegades

[doubleohfive]

Look at it this way: Either way, the team at Renegades is making the best film they can make. Perhaps such a motivation as possibly selling the project to Paramount motivates the production further. And as Tom said, that's win-win either way.

 

[Bixby]

I want this to succeed, if only because I really like Russ, Koenig and Picardo as actors. Succeed artistically speaking, of course. Will it convince the money men to finance any future follow-ups? THAT is a tough question to answer...

Seeing as the JJ Abrams version of Star Trek is a real money-maker while the last TNG films were not as much, they probably will refuse to place it on any network timeslot. Since it doesn't have a proven leading man type to sell the show to average joe viewers, I think the best it might hope for would be like the Greg Nicotero-directed WALKING DEAD webisode series: episodic stories with a definite ending, a modest budget.

But WALKING DEAD is a ratings juggernaut and pitching the webisodes was likely a no-brainer. Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica would probably have been also an easy sell on webisodes had the concept of webisodes been around back then...

Star Trek Renegades needs to appeal to a whole mess' o folks, bottom line...

 

[Barbreader]

I have said this on Facebook and I will say this here:
A fan film is art and recreation.
A pilot done by an actor or other Hollywood type is a tax deductible business expense.

Why call it a pilot? It lets Uncle Sam pitch in on the costs.

Others have gotten somewhat 'in' on this action by forming themselves as 'artistic' and 'educational' organization under 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

I believe some of the fan film groups have already gotten themselves tax frees status. There are others that I think would easily get it, too.

 

[JarodRussell]

I have said this on Facebook and I will say this here:
A fan film is art and recreation.
A pilot done by an actor or other Hollywood type is a tax deductible business expense.

Why call it a pilot? It lets Uncle Sam pitch in on the costs.

Others have gotten somewhat 'in' on this action by forming themselves as 'artistic' and 'educational' organization under 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

I believe some of the fan film groups have already gotten themselves tax frees status. There are others that I think would easily get it, too.

Why do fan film groups need tax free status when there is no income/profit?

 

[Tom]

It is a pilot because it is designed that way and will be presented to CBS. Even if they say no, it is still a pilot (as well as a film).

When various production teams present pilots to networks every year, even though some are rejected, those productions are still considered pilots, some find a way of airing (internet etc..) and some just get buried and never seen again.

Most of the time, the process is, an idea gets pitched, if a network likes it they commission funding to have the pilot made (usually in there own studios). If the pilot they funded does not live up to what they envisioned it can either be re-shot or scrapped. Since the network paid for the production of the pilot they don't allow it to be seen by the public (usually but not in all cases).

The other scenario is a pilot gets made with funding from either from the producers of the project or perhaps crowd funding (as is growing more prevalent these days). It is pitched to the network, if they reject it and other outlets reject it, there is nothing stopping the producers from releasing it on the internet if they so choose. If the network accepts it, they can either use the existing pilot, or in some cases have it re-shot in there studios with there resources and processes (union contracts etc..).

Remember Star Trek's pilot (The Cage) was rejected in 1964 but NBC agreed to commission a second pilot with changes. Also 'Lost in Space' also had an original pilot that was never aired (no Doctor Smith or the Robot) but they commissioned another pilot making changes.

So where STR is concerned, there is a limitation that you can only pitch is to CBS (as the copyright holder). They could be interested in the concept and effort but possibly want the pilot re-shot under there studios and guidelines with changes. That would mean re-negotiated contracts with the principle actors etc... They could also want the original pilot intact. Our angle is not just TV or bust, but possibly a CBS sanctioned web series. If they reject it all together then the production turns into a 'fan film' classification, whereas, it can just be released profit-free on the internet.

One thing that is interesting about STR, is no-one else has made there own Star Trek production with professional actors for the purpose of pitching it. We know there have been a few 'pitches' to CBS, but they have just been of various producers idea's of what they want for a new Trek series.

We are going to show CBS something tangible. Again, if rejected at least it will further show CBS execs how hungry fans are for a new Star Trek series. Now that it is at the level where pilots are going beyond just pitched ideas, and are being produced to push for a series.

 

[Barbreader]

First, I would all love to see Renegades taken up by CBS. It is a truly original take on Trek, so writers would have new places to go with it. I look forward to it. The people involved are truly talented, and it is among the most promising proposals out there.

On the tax issue:
Just as donations to the Opera, Museums, and universities are deductible to the donor, donations to other 501(c)(3) organizations can be deducted against OTHER income on taxes. A fan film group that works regularly with the acting or film department of a university would have a very solid claim to tax deductible status.

Likewise, if I am a professional actor, producer, director, and I make a movie (say, "Europa" for example) and I spend $250,000 on it. (It was a low budget film, well reviewed, but they didn't make the budget public, so it could have been $1 million or more, I don't know.) Now, it takes in only $150,000 in the theaters, of which $50,000 goes to the theaters and advertisers, so I net $100,000. I can take a LOSS on my taxes (against other income) of $150,000 (that's $250,000-my net of $100,000). In a partnership, the loss would be divided among the investors.

 

[F. King Daniel]

My biggest concern with Renegades is that it's aspirations to be a series pilot will ruin it as a standalone film (which is what I think it's far more likely to end up being). Will we get closure, or will it end with a million plot threads started and left dangling?

 

[doubleohfive]

I have no concerns about Renegades. I look forward to seeing it upon its release. I have my own opinions on the matter of it being pitched to CBS as a potential pilot for a potential series (With all respect, I don't see it happening) but until we see the thing, there's little reason to speculate or worry about anything other than hoping it will be good.

 

[Tom]

My biggest concern with Renegades is that it's aspirations to be a series pilot will ruin it as a standalone film (which is what I think it's far more likely to end up being). Will we get closure, or will it end with a million plot threads started and left dangling?

This is mostly self contained story. There are a some threads (mostly involving some things in the characters past that they are looking to hopefully resolve) left open, but not in a way would 'leave people hanging' . It was written in a way to be a pilot but not leave story important elements hanging if it is just a standalone film.

 

[curtiskoeppel]

it is rather a bummer that renegades was shot with the intention of it being a stand alone story, I was so looking forward to another star tv series

 

[F. King Daniel]

That's good to know. Thanks!

 

[Tom]

it is rather a bummer that renegades was shot with the intention of it being a stand alone story, I was so looking forward to another star tv series

It is shot as both, as mentioned, the Renegades have things in their recent past that they are looking for answers for. There is another broader mystery that is touched upon that will delved into in more detail if this goes to series. These things are written in a way so they are 'not' critical to the main story, but can be elaborated on in future episodes setting up a some nice arcs. From day one, we knew it had to be written a certain way that it would satisfy people, if it was either a stand alone or regular series.

 

[Loken]

The whole thing about "Renegades" or "Equinox" being a "Pilot" is total nonsense. Sky Conway and I have had this conversation. You can claim you are pitching CBS all you want, but CBS doesn't accept solicitations. And they have been very clear that they WILL NOT EVER pick up a fan film. They have also said they will NEVER bring back legacy Star Trek.

I just get annoyed at all the people who think somehow CBS is going to see one of these projects and pick it up.

First, none of these projects are union crews. That alone means it could never be real Star Trek. When I talked to one of the top people in CBS, he told me point blank, that there are 50 years of contracts and union agreements that tie up how Star Trek gets made, and even the simple idea of listing fan films on Startrek.com would literally take the CEOs of CBS and Paramount sitting in a room together and hashing it out.

Second, my co-producer and I know more top people at CBS than any other fan film, and I can tell you that they have said it will never happen.

Yes, I know Star Trek fans think they can do anything because 45 years ago they (or more likely their parents) brought Star Trek back for a 3rd season. Well, that was a long time ago and it doesn't work that way. The Enterprise Season 5 campaign, while run by nice, sweet, well intentioned people has ZERO chance of getting that done. And CBS has said so. Star Trek: Titan on Facebook hits me as a scam since they have taken money.

So I look at Renegades as a great independent Star Trek project that will raise the bar for what a fan film is. They have raised almost $ 370,000 and from being on set and seeing the great work, I think it will top World Enough and Time as the best Star Trek Fan Film yet. But don't delude yourself that it will be picked up.

 

[Tom]

Alec, we are still going to try to pitch this, as seemingly low as the odds may be. I have always been realistic here in saying a series may not happen and I have never diluted anyone. I even have a post in this thread that takes about pilot processes, mentioning unions and possible complete re-shoot under studio controlled conditions. We are not naive toward these things. This is why the story is mostly self contained with seeds that could be developed should any continuance occur.

My own belief is that if they liked the pilot and wanted to go with it, it would have to be completely re-shot under CBS studios, actors contracted in, some story changes to occur, etc.. etc... That said, if it is a stand alone, I am happy with that also.


BTW, yes Titan is a complete and utter scam by a guy that lives in the netherlands who has a pipe dream that if Titan gets enough Facebook likes it will get made. Yeah keep dreaming!

 

[Danlav05]

BTW, yes Titan is a complete and utter scam by a guy that lives in the netherlands who has a pipe dream that if Titan gets enough Facebook likes it will get made. Yeah keep dreaming!

Oh my 'Here's a picture of the USS Titan - give us 100 likes and CBS WILL MAKE A SERIES!! WOW!!' How on Earth is all that rubbish still on the internet?! That's basically the whole campaign - about a year ago I asked who they were and does Frakes/Sirtis etc know about it; they deleted the comment.

I'm glad Renegades is being made even if it is a one-off feature film. The premise is interesting and it's nice to have some familiar face back in Trek, being a potential presentation on how things could move forward.

 

[doubleohfive]

The whole thing about "Renegades" or "Equinox" being a "Pilot" is total nonsense. Sky Conway and I have had this conversation. You can claim you are pitching CBS all you want, but CBS doesn't accept solicitations. And they have been very clear that they WILL NOT EVER pick up a fan film. They have also said they will NEVER bring back legacy Star Trek.

I just get annoyed at all the people who think somehow CBS is going to see one of these projects and pick it up.

First, none of these projects are union crews. That alone means it could never be real Star Trek. When I talked to one of the top people in CBS, he told me point blank, that there are 50 years of contracts and union agreements that tie up how Star Trek gets made, and even the simple idea of listing fan films on Startrek.com would literally take the CEOs of CBS and Paramount sitting in a room together and hashing it out.

Second, my co-producer and I know more top people at CBS than any other fan film, and I can tell you that they have said it will never happen.

Yes, I know Star Trek fans think they can do anything because 45 years ago they (or more likely their parents) brought Star Trek back for a 3rd season. Well, that was a long time ago and it doesn't work that way. The Enterprise Season 5 campaign, while run by nice, sweet, well intentioned people has ZERO chance of getting that done. And CBS has said so. Star Trek: Titan on Facebook hits me as a scam since they have taken money.

So I look at Renegades as a great independent Star Trek project that will raise the bar for what a fan film is. They have raised almost $ 370,000 and from being on set and seeing the great work, I think it will top World Enough and Time as the best Star Trek Fan Film yet. But don't delude yourself that it will be picked up.

GARTH OF IZAR HATH SPOKEN!

 

[Bixby]

Doubleohfive,

I don't know what your problem is with Loken, but as far as I'm concerned, as somebody who's worked in the television and film business for about 25 years (no, not in Hollywood like you, but so what), I completely agree with what Loken wrote up there. He is looking at things in a very objective way, programming-wise...

Sorry, but you have brought in some completely irrelevant quotes that have nothing to do with point/counterpoint as concerns Loken's opinion on Renegades's chances at network pick-up.

 

[doubleohfive]

Doubleohfive,

I don't know what your problem is with Loken, but as far as I'm concerned, as somebody who's worked in the television and film business for about 25 years (no, not in Hollywood like you, but so what), I completely agree with what Loken wrote up there. He is looking at things in a very objective way, programming-wise...

Sorry, but you have brought in some completely irrelevant quotes that have nothing to do with point/counterpoint as concerns Loken's opinion on Renegades's chances at network pick-up.

And that's fine. You're free to disagree. As am I.

You can believe he's being pragmatic or approaching it from a reasonable standpoint, but my experience with him has proven to be quite different.

On a separate note, I didn't realize you also worked in TV, or for so long. If I may ask, what do you do?

 

[GSchnitzer]

Doubleohfive:

I think Loken had a bit more nuanced message than you seem to indicate. He said:

"So I look at Renegades as a great independent Star Trek project that will raise the bar for what a fan film is. They have raised almost $ 370,000 and from being on set and seeing the great work, I think it will top "World Enough and Time" as the best Star Trek Fan Film yet. But don't delude yourself that it will be picked up."

I think Loken supports Renegades, but just doesn't support a representation that their project is some kind of network "pilot."

Please be careful; you deliberately seem to be attempting to be nothing more than a provocateur.

 

[doubleohfive]

As usual, you are right Greg. I will amend my previous posts to be less hostile. Thank you, and Bixby, for your measured and reasonable response.